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Author Topic: Vitamin D  (Read 7837 times)

Dancinggirl

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Re: Vitamin D
« Reply #15 on: October 27, 2016, 11:22:47 AM »

Hurdity - I do totally agree that we should attend to our diet and try as best we can to get all nutrients through food.  I'm afraid we will have to agree to disagree about supplements.  When I looked more closely at what I eat, whilst I'm doing fine for some nutrients I was clearly lacking in certain areas.  I am vegetarian and don't eat oily fish, so that is one problem.  I also get terrible wind and often diarrhoea if I eat too much green stuff like broccoli and I can't eat any of the onion family (gives awful heartburn).  I think if one can grow most of your own vegetables that is great - I'm afraid I don't have much luck with this (though I have repeatedly tried, the wildlife seems to get most of it so it is doing the wildlife some good ;D) I only do well with potatoes, soft fruits and apples.  Shop bought fruit and veg are often depleted of nutrients, although I believe frozen vegetables are better for retaining their goodness so I do use these quite a bit!!
The scientific evidence regarding Vitamin D is very strongly in favour of supplementation simply because the weather and lifestyle here in the UK and the whole of northern europe is not conducive to us being able to get enough sunshine.  When I was a teenager I barely saw the light of day - rising to go to ballet college at 6am and getting home after 7pm having been indoors all day doing classes - I'm afraid many children get little or no sunlight and there is an alarming increase in rickets in the UK.  We are also all told to keep out of the sun due to the risk of skin cancer so we are getting very mixed messages overall - so just like HRT the benefits of sunshine does also have risks!!!!

Recently there was feature on TV about farmed salmon - salmon being one of the most popular ways of getting Omega 3 and Vit d - farmed salmon is showing a greatly reduced amount of these key nutrients now, so with modern food production we can't rely on food alone to get what we need.

I have often sited my good friend who has been diagnosed with advanced stage osteoporosis in her mid 50s.  She ate an incredibly good diet including lots of oily fish, salads, veg etc.  She also kept slim and very active but had a sensitive skin so had to keep out of the sun - she also believed she should avoid dairy as the fat would be bad for her!!!. This is a classic example of how easily we can believe our diet is OK.  Again, we are all told to avoid fat because of cholesterol build up, so how many people are developing osteoporosis because they avoid dairy or other calcium rich foods.  It's a minefield out there with all the mixed messages.

I am merely a realist - we may think we get all we need from our diet but the reality is that we often don't and possibly as we age we simply need a little more help along the way in terms of supplements - just don't go bonkers and take too much of anything - ‘supplements' are just that, supplements.

I work hard to eat a ‘balanced' diet but I take both Krill Oil for my Omega 3 and the Osteocare supplement that has calcium, magnesium, zinc and vitamin D every day - and a couple of times a week I'm taking an iron supplement, just in case.  DG x
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cubagirl

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Re: Vitamin D
« Reply #16 on: October 27, 2016, 11:54:44 AM »

Dancinggirl, interesting points. Just wish I could take dairy though. I miss cheese most of all. Lactofree variety  I can take occasionally, so long as I load up with lactase tablets.  This is why I take calcium supplements with vitD.   GP advised me to as not getting required amount through dairy products.

I envy my daughter as she has proper fruit & veg shops beside her. I used to buy fresh fruit & veg off local stall holders when we lived in Glasgow. When we moved to Inverness our local farm sold fresh produce. Oh how I miss those days!
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Hurdity

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Re: Vitamin D
« Reply #17 on: October 27, 2016, 05:10:05 PM »

Hi there all - I hear the points being made! I am just interested to know from a biological and evolutionary point of view, where we all stand. I mean we have evolved to survive in different areas of the world with differing amounts of sunshine according to our skin type. Provided we are still living in approximately the "right" latitude for our skin (in terms of how much sun we need to produce vitamin D) then I would like to know what is possible without supplentation.

I haven't looked it up this time but every time I try to look up how much sunshine we need then different answers are given. According to the link (sparkle gave) we do in fact get most of our Vit D from sunshine and supplemented to a lesser extent by diet. The link does not mention storage on the liver so that if you have a lot of sunshine over the summer - how long will the vit D last from liver stores?  I presume this is also a reflection of skin type and how much time spend in the sun?

I accept there are fewer nutrients in food now but I think we eat most foods to excess anyway in the west and particularly now (compared even to my childhood in terms of amount of protein consumed per meal/day) so I wonder whether this matters so much so that it leads to us becoming deficient?  :-\.

It must be difficult I agree Dancinggirl to get as much Vit D from food if you are vegetarian - vegetable sources are not so good - so that means a lot of eggs - might counteract the effect of the broccoli!!!

Anyway I would love to see some controlled trials - on the effect of sunshine and diet on vit D levels (as well as supplements) - but I doubt they would be done as it would mean some people becoming deliberately deficient if they don't have enough sunshine!

Yes Sparky I agree re the testing - wouldn't it be wonderful if we all had annual blood tests for everything and then treated accordingly? (Vits, hormones, the lot!). My level was end of winter so I expect it is very high now after the summer. Re the dog walking - presumably that is not in the middle of the day - and presumably not enough for you if you have been shown to still be deficient - but how much you get from the sun should surely be independent of diet and digestion. In your position I would become more of a sun-worshipper for longer periods ( but this is more difficult for those who work full-time). However 20 mins in the middle of the day should work wonders ( would like to see the research into how long in different latitudes though).

Sorry this is a bit garbled as I am wondering aloud but I am genuinely interested to know about all of this in relation to our biology. If anyone has links to any published papers please post!!

Hurdity x
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breeze

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Re: Vitamin D
« Reply #18 on: October 27, 2016, 06:59:58 PM »

For the rest of the population, everyone over the age of five years (including pregnant and breastfeeding women) is advised to consider taking a daily supplemenaining 10 micrograms (mcg) of vitamin D.

From the NHS choices website.

http://www.nhs.uk/livewell/summerhealth/pages/vitamin-d-sunlight.aspx
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Katejo

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Re: Vitamin D
« Reply #19 on: October 30, 2016, 10:57:19 AM »

So the Govt is recommending we should be taking no more than 400 IU a day.  When mine was low my gp prescribed 1600 IU a day for three months and my level reached the dizzy heights of 51.  I've been taking between 2000 and 3000 IU a day for the last 18 months or so and it's now 59.  So clearly I need to supplement just to stand still.  Obviously I have digestive issues so don't get enough from diet but I don't think there's any way I would ever get enough from sunlight without burning to a crisp first!!

S x
  I am now confused over appropriate doses. An endocrinologist has just told me that my Vit D level is low (don't have actual figure yet). I mentioned that I had bought some from Boots and she didn't say anything about needing a higher dose. The ones which i bought  are 25 microgram (how does that relate to IU? 250 IU perhaps?) and it warns patients not to take more than 1 a day. A colleague has since told me that she needed a high dose because her level was very low.

I have now found the answer re. micrograms and IU. 1 microgram = 40 IU so 25 microgram = 1000 IU (already more than the 400 IU)
« Last Edit: October 30, 2016, 11:05:09 AM by Katejo »
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Megamind

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Re: Vitamin D
« Reply #20 on: October 30, 2016, 11:39:45 AM »

The ones I was prescribed by my GP are only 800 IU and I got told to just take 1 a day. I was never told my actual level, just that it was low but going by others, I'm thinking I can't have been that bad?!
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Katejo

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Re: Vitamin D
« Reply #21 on: October 30, 2016, 01:20:07 PM »

Yes you're right Katejo with that conversion, I just found an online calculator.  It's so confusing isn't it!

S x
So why is the NHS saying 400 microgram only per day if the over the counter version is already 1000 microgram?  Just going to sainsbury's now and will look at their version if they have Vit D on its own.
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dahliagirl

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Re: Vitamin D
« Reply #22 on: October 30, 2016, 01:23:58 PM »

Sainsbury's have a 25ug high dose one - that is what I use.

I was given a leaflet by the GP that said 10ug daily or 25ug if you needed to get levels up.  (If you are actually deficient, then there are higher doses on prescription) Elsewhere, I have read that that is not enough.

I do 25ug in winter, and lots of fish etc.  :)
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babyjane

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Re: Vitamin D
« Reply #23 on: October 30, 2016, 02:44:47 PM »

I take vitamin D supplementation on the advice of my endocrinologist and over 6 months my levels went from 32 in February to 60 in September.  This was also through the summer.  He has advised increasing the amount I take through the winter as its all very well saying get plenty of sunshine, but the winter months are not generally very sunny where we live.

I use a 400iu (10mcg) D lux spray or I get my D3 from Just Vitamins.  I cannot find D3 and Magnesium without calcium and I cannot take calcium supplements.  I guess I could look at a separate magnesium supplement but my endo didn't mention this to me.
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Katejo

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Re: Vitamin D
« Reply #24 on: October 30, 2016, 06:08:15 PM »

Just make sure it's D3 and not D2.

S x
What's the significance please/How do you tell? My packet just says Vit D.
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Katejo

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Re: Vitamin D
« Reply #25 on: October 30, 2016, 06:13:23 PM »

I take vitamin D supplementation on the advice of my endocrinologist and over 6 months my levels went from 32 in February to 60 in September.  This was also through the summer.  He has advised increasing the amount I take through the winter as its all very well saying get plenty of sunshine, but the winter months are not generally very sunny where we live.

I use a 400iu (10mcg) D lux spray or I get my D3 from Just Vitamins.  I cannot find D3 and Magnesium without calcium and I cannot take calcium supplements.  I guess I could look at a separate magnesium supplement but my endo didn't mention this to me.
My endocrinologist has just told me that she is probably discharging me back to the GP because I have underactive not overractive thyroid but that I do need more Vit D but hasn't specified an amount yet. All other thyroid tests were normal levels. I am waiting for the result of  1 more blood test for B12. I looked in Boots but could only find Vit D with calcium and not with magnesium.
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Katejo

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Re: Vitamin D
« Reply #26 on: November 14, 2016, 05:58:22 PM »

I was low in Vitamin D earlier this year and was prescribed 3 months of supplements but not told whether to come back after 3 months. When taking them I noticed an improvement in my tiredness, joint aches and more surprisingly an improvement in my ibs type symptoms (never been officially diagnosed).

I stopped taking them for a few months and noticed the joint aches and the ibs symptoms returning so phoned the Dr last week to enquire if I could have some more or if I needed another blood test first. They said I didn't need the blood test and prescribed me another 3 months worth.
Hi Megamind   How long did it take before you noticed an improvement in the aches/pains? What dose were you on?   I have recently been recommended them and have been taking them for about 2-3 weeks but no improvement yet. I want to see the GP about the dose and whether I need to take ones combined with something else. I am just waiting for a letter from the hospital with my latest blood test result for B12 before I make an appointment.
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Megamind

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Re: Vitamin D
« Reply #27 on: November 14, 2016, 06:09:09 PM »

Hi Kate,
I was only prescribed 1 a day Fultium-D 800 IU. I would say it took a month to show improvement in my joint pain and tiredness. When I stopped taking them, the joint pain rather than the tiredness came back again. I've been taking them again now about 3 weeks and the joint pain has improved again. It's always in my knee and wrists.
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