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[Justjules]

Ladies, would welcome your thoughts on a bit of a dilemma, sorry it's not exactly a 'health' issue, but it soon becomes one for me as I get so upset and stressed about it no matter how hard I try not to.

Basically, I've not got much of a relationship with my daughter at the moment for one reason or another.  She lives nearby, been divorced 3 years, has had a new relationship for about the same time, nice guy.  We used to spend a lot of time with her and her ex-husband and my grandchildren, holidays etc and so we've had to adapt to her new life and are glad to see her happy but it's meant we have had to take a back seat, which is natural, and even though I've not been happy with some of the things she's done along the way, I appreciate it's nothing to do with me so I've kept quiet (I.e. goes away every school holiday (he's a teacher) for a city break abroad without the children and has a 10 day holiday abroad without them as well) which I think isn't fair to the children.  They don't get one unless they go with their Dad.

She's a very selfish girl, only really thinks of herself most of the time, and lacks total empathy.  She was no support whatsoever during my breakdown and thinks it's all in my mind and just leaves me to get on with it and has been quite nasty sometimes about it.  I appreciate I've been a pain in the proverbial at times when my HA was really bad but don't consider it right to just be abandoned over it.  The boys were really good.  She never goes to see my Mum (only went once when she first started seeing the boyfriend to borrow £500 for her first city break away and has never mentioned it to my Mum again and hasn't paid it back).  My Mum gets really upset about it so that upsets me.  She only works 3 days so she has time to go and see her even though it's 30 mins away.

Anyway, the crux of the matter is the dreaded 'Christmas' word.....I know things have to change but it appears we are now to get completely side-lined once again this year in favour of her just doing exactly what she wants without a care for anyone else.  Kids are going to their Dad's again for Christmas lunch, so she's off to the boyfriend's Mum's again and we will probably see them for Boxing night and not sure about Christmas Eve as I wasn't well last year and she'd caused all sorts of stress beforehand I didn't exactly fuss around everyone and I suppose I will be paying the price for it this year as I doubt they will want to come.  She never does anything at hers for Christmas but just does the rounds of whoever is cooking etc.

I know it sounds really petty but I'm already getting really upset about it all.  She and the children used to rave about my Christmas dinner and all the traditions etc and hate going anywhere else but now dismisses them as 'just a dinner' and that they are not bothered.  Plus, my Mum is 85 and not in good health so is also upset with her attitude to everything, especially me.  I know traditions have to change but he still goes to his Mum and Dad's every year.

The last thing I want is a row with her.  I couldn't cope with the upset and anxiety it would cause me so I guess it's just a case of biting my tongue and putting up with it again.  This is going to sound awful, so forgive me because I love my Mother to the moon and back, but now at our age, it looks like our Christmases will just consist of the elderly, poorly relations and I absolutely dread it and I hate myself for feeling like that as one day they won't be there.  From now until Christmas isn't my best time of year unfortunately.  I hate Christmas more and more each year and it makes me ill every time, just like it did when I was a child.

Sorry for the rant, I just need to get it off my chest and when I read it back, it looks like I'm a miserable cow and a right whinger!!!  Everybody says leave her to get on with it but it eats at me and I'm dreaming of it lately which is ridiculous! 

[dazned]

 

Horrible situation to be in !

How well do you get on with her partner,could you explain to him that you feel excluded a bit ? Would you be able to cook for him,your daughter,the grandkids and invite his parents too ,say Christmas Eve. ?

[Justjules]

I know Sparkle, but thanks for reading! x

Dazned, I know him reasonably well but as they keep themselves to themselves really .  The grandchildren's arrangements have been made - going to their Dad's all Christmas Day till Boxing Day again.  The boyfriend also has two children who alternate Christmas with their Mum and him but he always takes them to his Mum's.  I honestly couldn't cope with 14 for Christmas anymore (with my two son's and Mum and probably MIL & FIL this year there would be 14).  I used to do it in the past but I've not got the energy levels anymore.  Plus the crux of the matter is that she doesn't like spending Christmas with 'the oldies' and if they do come, they tend to 'eat and run' and are on their blessed mobile phones most of the time looking at football/sports results which even if I say anything, I'm overruled. 

Reading this, maybe I should be glad she does her own thing!  I think her friend has also influenced her as she goes away every Christmas with her kids even though her parents are upset that they don't see them, and go abroad themselves now as they have nothing to stay at home for, which I think is very sad and a bit selfish.

[Justjules]

I know, it's sad isn't it that Christmas has turned into what it has.  Families not close by any more or split.  My Mum gets upset when I say how much I hate it now because she loves it, I don't know why!  Once my Dad and my Nan died, all the happy family Christmases with some sort of meaning and excitement attached, seemed to disappear even though I tried to make it special to our own family with our own little traditions but that's gone by the by now.  Maybe I'm strange, but I would never organise Christmas without running it past my Mum or OH's family in the plans just because it seems such a selfish thing to do to just say "this is what we're doing" but I know a lot of people who do, especially if their families haven't been close and obviously, my daughter is taking the same route. It would be really nice to think that at 41 years of age, she could turn around and do Christmas dinner for once in her life for other people but no, not an option.

Megamind, going away is out of the question while we have our elderly parents.  I couldn't leave my Mum to go away - I wouldn't want to and OH wouldn't leave his, even though he has two sisters and I am an only child.

I don't think there is an answer - it just helped to get it off my chest and see if I'm being my usual super sensitive self - that's what you get for being a 'people pleaser' all your life!! x

[Justjules]

Well, I dread to think of the day when we will become the elderly that aren't wanted at Christmas   

Going away sounds wonderful - I think Christmas may get phased out altogether unless you are particularly religious in years to come as most people groan about it nowadays to be honest.  Commercialism hasn't helped much either as we have it rammed down our throats well before we need it so when it arrives it's a bit of an anti-climax.  x

[getting_old]

When I first read your post JJ I was going to suggest asking your exSIL to visit with the kids but I'm guessing that he and his parents want to spend the time with them. If they are local though maybe you could ask them to pop by in the morning so you can give the grandchildren their presents and watch them open them.
My Dad always loved Christmas, but he used to say that it was really for the children. Once you get to a certain age it has less significance but we still used to visit and we'd have lunch then a walk or relax in front of the TV. I think that it's peoples expectations of Christmas that make it so stressful and if you just treat it as a day off to relax with people you love who will take you as you are and enjoy your company then it's not so bad. In our family it was treated like a normal Sunday but we had turkey and presents. The over-commercialism really doesn't help.

[CLKD]

I would suggest speaking to the ex-son in law and seeing if he would like to bring the children round a couple of days B4 C.mas Eve on the premise that it spreads the excitement out!

How much to do you see the children anyway?

[Justjules]

Thanks ladies.  I don't speak to the exSIL. He put my daughter through a lot of pain etc.  I see the children briefly 4 mornings a week as I travel to work with daughter and sometimes drop them off and sometimes they come after their Dad has had them on a weekend but only if my son and his girlfriend are with us - otherwise they don't come.

Teresa, it makes me feel bad for moaning when you are going through what you are but yes, it makes things much more precious and you want to make the most of such a special time but I think that also comes the more we age as we definitely appreciate our family much more. My daughter hasn't got there yet. I suppose I fear that these new arrangements she makes mean we won't ever have the good times back and the girls I work with make it worse because they wouldn't dream of doing what she does to their Mum's but hey ho, it is what it is.  So much other stuff to be thankful for. X

[Justjules]

Oh I know Teresa, I didn't take it that way.  I think I just need to put a different perspective on it and accept it for what it is and the fact that I can't do anything about it really.  It just makes me sad. x

[CLKD]

Is this about your needs; are you trying to protect your daughter?  He put her through pain 'then', how does she feel now?  Has she moved on …….. maybe ask how she feels about your contacting the ex in order to see the children at specific times?


Also, very sorry to keep asking the same questions - as soon as I read your reply I remembered you had told me the situation  ……   

[Dennylou48]

Hi just joules please don't beat yourself up over this, unfortunately when our children have there own families they tend to want to do there own things, I fully understand where you are coming from and it is so hard not to voice your opinions, I have 3 grown up children with there own familys now and they like to stay in there own homes so my husband and I do the rounds and then go home to have dinner with my youngest son whom is 24. We are having some friends around this year but it's the little ones that make Christmas so we feel there is no point of Christmas Day. Girls can be such a nightmare  sometimes and will throw everything at you from all angles but expect you to be there when they need you or a member of family, my eldest daughter didn't like a few home truths and have not spoken for 18 months and uses my grandchildren as weapons cos she knows that is the only way she can hurt us.. I hope sort something out with her, maybe go to lunch with her and try to talk about how you feel, girls can be so stubborn though. Boys are so much easier lol. Good luck lovie xx

[Suzi Q]

Is there anyway you could ask your daughter if the kids could stay overnight once a fortnight you could couch it as giving them a break?
It sounds like your daughters trying to recapture something freedom perhaps youth?
You have a right to feel hurt and neglected left out.  I bet you were there for her in her troubles.  Idk what to say except people can be selfish thoughtless remind them.
I hate Christmas with a passion nana my mu and Dad all doed just before or just after.
Being in Oz doesnt help. Christmas here is horrible no atmosphere at all
Its hot humid sticky sunny everything is shut no pubs open nothing to do
Tv is the same on xmas eve xmas day and boxing day as any other day.
Summer holidays are on over xmas (6) weeks.  So everyone is eithe gone or going.
Xmas eves horrible we usually have xmas eve lunch with son dinlaw and grandson
In a restaurant as they want to do stuff un the afternoon. .We usually go to the cinima in the late afternoon on our own go home and watch old uk xmas shows which invariably i end up dead upset and depressed  Xmas day 12 to 3pmish
We go to sons for lunch with her family i do all veg and trifle . Its rush rush hot hot humid uncomfortable.  By 3pmish all over thats xmas! I hate it i wish i could go to sleep 23 wake up 26th.  Your not alone. Why not have Christmas dinner in a Pub surrounded by lots of people.  Go out xmas eve to a pub or cinima have dinner. If you cant do that make more of a day of it with your mum why not ask a neighbor in too. Im sorry i do understand xx

[Justjules]

Hi Ladies

Thank you for your kind replies.  Sorry, I hadn't looked at the forum for a few days.

CKLD, not sure, but yes, could be that it has a little bit to do with my needs as such but I'm not that selfish surely that I would want a happy family Christmas at the expense of my daughter's arrangements, it's just that she doesn't think of others at all and that's where the upset lies.

Dennylou, I agree that boys are easier but then if they get a girlfriend or wife that doesn't like you or your family they tend to toe the line for fear of upsetting them (seen this in my friend's families many times).  I know that it may erupt into a confrontation any time if she carries on like she is. We do go for the odd lunch or coffee but it's a bit strained and I don't enjoy it anymore.

Suzi Q, children wouldn't want to stay overnight to be honest as they've never been encouraged to do it when we've asked and they've never wanted to come unprompted which is sad.  Granddaughter did stay over a couple of times but she's every so slightly on the Asperger's spectrum and so finds it difficult.
Yes, Christmas in Oz must be odd but that's because all the pictures paint a happy 'snowy' scene of freezing cold weather with everybody huddled by the fireside - not on a beach in the sunshine!  I've tried to hide my feelings over the years about how much I hate Christmas now, for the same reasons as yourself, but now I'm not bothered as I've given up trying to pretend and running around trying to please everyone and getting stressed out.  I too just want to go to sleep on the 23rd and wake up when it's all over.  The Pub option is looking a good one this year, although my lovely SIL may be hosting which will be nice. 

Plus my OH is probably going to lose his job this week so that'll be a big factor in what we do etc.  Hey ho!x

[CLKD]

Your needs should be met!  Maybe when the children get older they will want to be in contact more often.

By doing 'her own thing' she remains in control which may lessen any anxiety she has ……. once I have everything under 'starters orders' I can then relax 

[groundhog]

Justjules just wanted to say I completely understand.  I think some of younger generation can be very selfish and definitely live for themselves with little consideration for others.  Not all of course,  I'm lucky in that I have a close relationship with my daughter and we tend to agree on most things.  Lat year we had a dilemma as I was unwell and my mother was and is in a home following brain haemorrhage as you know.  So I couldn't bear to leave her out Xmas day but she Couldnt come to any of our houses.  Anyway we booked to go out -  was £65 a head and as some of my family are erm skint,  I had to pay.  My sisters ex came and complained about stupid things and upset the children by forcing them to eat. It was awful.  I now dread Christmas and just want to run away.  Don't feel alone,  I think a lot of us struggle with Christmas and selfish children etc.
So sorry to hear about your husband's job xx

Oh and I should add than on Christmas Day my mother wasn't well and couldn't come anyway.  Disaster.