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[GypsyRoseLee]

Hi GG

As soon as I got suspicious about the spray tan I reapplied a new patch onto a tiny patch of skin that hadn't been spray tanned (basically the fold of skin under my tummy apron). I did this last Thursday lunchtime and again on Sunday night. Both times my skin was clean and dry.

But I am still feeling very, very low. Though I did start the Utro on Friday night too which I understand can have a depressive effect? But when I took Utro the first time I've written in my mood diary that after the first couple of days where I felt very anxious (and I think I was just fretting at how the Utro would affect me) I was actually fine. No low mood at all and no anxiety. Infact I reported having several 'very good' days while on Utro. My mood did slump when my withdrawl bleed arrived, but that only lasted a few days.

Do you think 9 weeks is still only early days then? I upped my dose to 50mg nearly 4 weeks ago, but maybe it needs to be 75mg though that seems high to me?

[Briony]

Evorel 50 took at least three months for me to have any true impact. Before then, what I thought was too much estogen was, I now believe too little . Interestingly enough, I too was ridiculously scared about taking Utrogestan and, after a few (imagined?) days of anxiety, I realised I was feeling much better than when not on it. Only problem was a definitely dip about 5 days after stopping it. I would have loved to have taken 100mg every day!

[GypsyRoseLee]

Why did you feel that it was too much oestrogen Briony? Weere you still very up and down during those first 3 months on Evorel 50?

I was terrified of taking Utro, I started a thread about it on here but thankfully you sensible lot calmed down. After that I felt much better. I actually posted to say I was quite enjoying the Utro phase and several women replied saying they felt the same.

I'm 4 days into the Utro this time, but I honestly don't know if I'm still feeling flat because of the Utro, or whether I'm feeling so flat because my body was without any oestrogen for a week because of the spray tan stopping absorption (if that actually was the case?).

There's just too many 'don't knows' and it's driving me mad.

[Taz2]

Was  your patch exposed to the sun at all during your holiday?

Taz x

[Briony]

Yes, I was still very up and down. The anxiety made things worse as the slightest symptom seemed magnified. I think even reading about Utrogeston made me panicky. Then a few months on, I realised I preferred being on the Utrogeston - total opposite of what I had anticipated! I still have off days now, on Qlaira, but I've regained a sense of perspective, if that makes sense?

[GypsyRoseLee]

Hi Taz

No, it was always covered up by either clothes or my bikini bottoms. But I didn't sunbathe much as it was just too hot. I did swim in the sea once or twice so not sure if salt water would have damaged my patch at all?

[Galadriel]

Hi GRL,

The sea water will not interfere with your patch as long as it is well and truly stuck to you... my sister uses patches (can't remember which ones  ) and she spent three week body surfing every day in New Zealand... the patch never gave her any trouble.

I'm intrigued to know what the manufacturer says as I use Estradot too... I will not be going for a spray tan before my holidays - I will be dazzling everyone with my bright white bod, complete with patch stuff safely to my butt 

Galadriel x

[GypsyRoseLee]

Oh yes, I definitely recognise that feeling of the anxiety magnifying everything by a factor of 1000  I totally lose all sense of perspective and convince myself of all sorts of stupid random stuff e.g. that I will be peri menopausal and having all these horrible symptoms for the rest of my life  That's why I know my anxiety/low mood are hormonal because I was just the same when I had PND. Lots of nonsensical thoughts and a complete loss of perspective about every day stuff.

I was just like you I think, in that even just seeing the packet of Utro in my bedside drawer made me panic. God knows what I thought it would actually do to me, for Heaven's sake. But then 5 days into taking it I realised I was feeling perfectly fine.

Thinking about it, even though I have been on HRT for nearly 9 weeks now, I have only been on the higher 50mg patch for nearly 4 weeks. It was my GP who started me on the 25mg patch. But when I saw my consultant 4 weeks ago she said that was too low and she wanted me on at least a 50mg patch as I was 'very young still' (can't tell you how nice it was to hear someone tell me that  ) As apparently the younger you are when you start with peri menopause then the more oestrogen you need.

So, I'm wondering if I should really discount the first 5 weeks of my HRT as the patch just wasn't strong enough to really do anything? And, I should really be thinking that I have properly been on HRT for only nearly a month and that I need to give it at least another 2 months before thinking of trying anything else?

[GypsyRoseLee]

Hi Galadriel

I am still waiting for a reply to my email, but as soon as I get one I will post their answer on here.

I have been doing some reading on the subject, and I have seen that apparently a spray tan can interfere with absorption from morphine patches, so that would seem to indicate that it could also hinder absorption from an oestrogen patch too?

I think you could still have a spray tan, but keep your knickers on (I didn't, I had it done completely naked)) so that you would still have an untouched area of skin on your abdomen and bum on which to stick your patch.

[GeordieGirl]

I was just like you I think, in that even just seeing the packet of Utro in my bedside drawer made me panic.

I've seen a couple of people say this (or similar ) recently. Why the fear over natural progesterone?  I positively looked forward to it (and used some natural progesterone cream before getting my Utrogestan prescription). Is there something I'm missing?

Gypsy I do think you should give the HRT a little more time  to settle and not panic. You've only been taking the Utrogestan for a matter of days and (from what I understand) HRT isn't like an aspirin that gives you an instant fix. Try to stop worrying about it, work with the dose you've been given and keep a log of how you feel. If it's not working then you can report back in detail to your doctor who will hopefully be able to recognise from the symptoms which bit will need tweaking. 

GG x

[GypsyRoseLee]

Hi GG

I think I worked myself up into a state about taking Utrogestan because I had read lost of posts on here about women reacting badly to progesterone. I have always suffered with PMS, so had visions of the Utro just making my symptoms worse. And I already felt so low and wretched that I couldn't bear the thought of taking something that would make me feel even worse.

But, basically my normal common sense had flown out of the window because of stupid anxiety causing a total lack of perspective 

But, actually taking the Utro was a complete non-event, and I felt such a fool for feeling so panicked about it.

I think you're absolutely right that I need to take some time out, and give the HRT chance. Like I said to Briony, it's just occurred to me that even though I have been on HRT for nearly 9 weeks, I have only been on the higher 50mg patch for just under 4 weeks. When I saw my consultant 4 weeks ago, she said the 25mg patch was too low and that I would need at least a 50mg patch.

So, really I should take the view that I have only been on proper HRT for nearly a month, which is no time at all really.

 

[Briony]

I was just like you I think, in that even just seeing the packet of Utro in my bedside drawer made me panic.

I've seen a couple of people say this (or similar ) recently. Why the fear over natural progesterone?  I positively looked forward to it (and used some natural progesterone cream before getting my Utrogestan prescription). Is there something I'm missing?

Gypsy I do think you should give the HRT a little more time  to settle and not panic. You've only been taking the Utrogestan for a matter of days and (from what I understand) HRT isn't like an aspirin that gives you an instant fix. Try to stop worrying about it, work with the dose you've been given and keep a log of how you feel. If it's not working then you can report back in detail to your doctor who will hopefully be able to recognise from the symptoms which bit will need tweaking. 

GG x

For me the 'panic' was due to having had bad experiences in the past with the POP, having read too much on here about less positive experiences with progesterone (even Utrogestan) and most of all, just another symptom of hormone induced anxiety. Pre HRT, anything would thrown me into a state of fear and dread.


GRL -  Give it at least three months. I went straight in at 50mg Evorel (aged 42) and saw nothing positive for months. I was convinced that the weird things I was experiencing were side effects when in fact I now believe the 50mcg initial patch wassimply  too low and the 'side effects' were actually symptoms of low estrogen, despite the  HRT.

These last three days I have been on the lowest part of the Qlaira regime I take  (10mg estrogen and then two blank days) and I have experienced palpitations and dizziness for first time in ages, along with crushing fatigue. I can't wait to start the 30mg pill tomorrow!

[GypsyRoseLee]

I think that's good advice Briony, thank you.

It's just so strange that for the first 2.5 weeks of being on the higher 50mg dose I actually felt I was really improving. I think I posted on here about feeling stronger inside and 'fuller' again, if that makes sense?

Then the horrible low mood/anxiety came crashing back 9 days ago. Literally in the time it took to have a shower! I went in the shower feeling fine. I stepped out the shower feeling suddenly very depressed and with that horrible low level anxiety, which I'm sure you know well.

But, that could have been due to poor/zero absorption thanks to the spray tan? I'm still waiting for a reply back from the manufacturers 

During you first 3 months on Evorel did you feel consistently low and anxious, or did you have some 'good' days/weeks too?

[Briony]

I think that's good advice Briony, thank you.

It's just so strange that for the first 2.5 weeks of being on the higher 50mg dose I actually felt I was really improving. I think I posted on here about feeling stronger inside and 'fuller' again, if that makes sense?

Then the horrible low mood/anxiety came crashing back 9 days ago. Literally in the time it took to have a shower! I went in the shower feeling fine. I stepped out the shower feeling suddenly very depressed and with that horrible low level anxiety, which I'm sure you know well.

But, that could have been due to poor/zero absorption thanks to the spray tan? I'm still waiting for a reply back from the manufacturers 

During you first 3 months on Evorel did you feel consistently low and anxious, or did you have some 'good' days/weeks too?

Initially I was on a high - but I think that was imagined (!). Then I had a real low as it wasn't the immediate miracle I'd anticipated. By week three I was worried as others on here seemed to have noticed a difference by then. I convinced myself my issues were therefore not hormonal, after all, and got very stressed. Luckily some great members on here put me straight!

Within a few months or so I realised that I was feeling better than I had done pre HRT. This happened once I accepted it wasn't going to be the perfect cure that would restore my mind and body to its pre all this hormonal chaos state! Realising that there was 'some' improvement, and knowing at 42 I probably needed more rather than less oestrogen, I went to the GP again and eventually ended up with a three month trial of Qlaira.

Thinking back, I definitely had low times - especially during and just after my bleed, but they were less scary/long lasting than the pre HRT  bad times. Finding this site, in between, helped massively too! 

[GypsyRoseLee]

We're so similar Briony 

Deep down I had convinced myself that HRT was my Holy Grail, and that within 3 days of wearing an oestrogen patch I would feel great. And for the first 3 days I did feel great, which was definitely psychosomatic. Then I had to start on the Utrogestan as I was already mid cycle.

But then I felt dreadfully low again, terrified the Utro would melt my brain or some such nonsense  Lucily the sensible ladies on here calmed me down. After that things continued okay for quite a while. Then I was very down again during my withdrawl bleed and I convinced myself that I was either on too low an oestrogen dose, or too high (my opinion changed hourly).

(As an aside, I think that unless someone else has experienced the horrible feelings of dread and fear that your hormones can create, they can't understand how desperate and confused they can make you feel. It's ironic because the reason I was recruited to do the job I do is because I am (usually) very cool headed, calm and analytical. I'm the person called in to trouble shoot and deal with the crisis  )

But then after a few days my mood rose again for a while, but then dipped again...and I was so disappointed as I thought that HRT would provide a slow but steady improvement in symptoms. But each time I 'dipped' I was as low as I had ever been before.

Then finally my consultant appointment came round, and she advised a higher dose. And again that seemed to work for 2-3 weeks, then bingo for the last 9 -10 days I have felt very low and anxious again. And this is nearly the longest period of time when I have stayed consistently 'low' since starting my mood diary 4 months ago. But I honestly don't know whether this is caused by the spray tan, or whether I was just due another long dip because I had been 'fine' for nearly 3 weeks?

I keep getting tiny little mood lifts which last maybe a minute, like the HRT is 'trying' to kick in, but then I feel just as low again.

Have talked to my husband, and as he's a scientist he has a very scientific view on things. He says that GPs and consultants aren't magicians and now that I'm on HRT all they can do is suggest increasing the dose, or changing the product. But they can't 'know' what will work for me. It's just going to be a process of elimination for them (and me).

I'm tempted to go back to my GP and ask to go back on the Pill. But my husband thinks I should wait at least another month. But as you know waiting while you feel like this is so hard.

can I ask why you ended up with the Pill rather than a higher dosage patch like 75mg or even 100mg?