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[oldsheep]

I'm getting desperate now, so sorry for another thread. There's a direct correlation between my sleep and swollen or not swollen breasts.
Over the weekend, my breasts returned to a more normal size and I slept fine. I was quite tired and relaxed in the daytime.
Last night I got interrupted, REM only sleep and this morning my breasts are hugely swollen again.

I am (and have been for a couple of years) on 75 Evorel patches and nightly 100mg Utrogestan.
This is meant to give a steady dose of hormones.

Put on a new patch yesterday morning. GP is clueless and hopes I'll get a meno clinic appointment in the next few weeks so says don't lower the dose of the patch yet.
He also says oestrogen shouldn't cause insomnia. It was 221 when they last checked it a few weeks ago and is being tested again.

I feel so unwell with fibromyalgia pain when I don't sleep well and nervy and tearful. This has been going on since late April.



 

[CLKD]

Lack of sleep and painful breasts doesn't lead to a happy feeling!  Could you have a chat with a Pharmacist?

[oldsheep]

hello CLKD, thanks again.
No, they are just huge, not sore (boobs). I can only think the patch isn't being correctly absorbed although why is a mystery.

[CLKD]

Do you sleep face down?  That would make you more aware of any increase in size.  Maybe the amount in the patch is adding to your own hormonal ups and downs?

[Hurdity]

These patches are quite large aren't they? Is the patch remaining well stuck on for the whole of the 3.5 days ( I presume you change it twice a week?). If it is coming away even by a quarter by the end of the time and especially if you leave one of them stuck for 4 dsays and the other for 3 days - your levels could have reduced by the time you change the patch for your body to register the new patch some hours later?

Does this always happen the night after you replace a patch? If so this could be the explanation. The dose of course isn't exactly constant - there is a rise to a peak over the first 12 hours or so and then a very gradual decline (but not appreciable), but the longer you leave it the greater the decline will be. Strange about your boobs though - I'm on a lower dose but never notice any difference in boob size (except they're a bit bigger now because I've put on a few pounds!).

Also I can't remember whether you take oral or vag Utro? Progesterone can cause sensitive boobs - if you felt this in the second half of the menstural cycle. Digestive problems and all sorts of other things can affect the absorption of progesterone when taken orally so maybe the level iof prog is fluctuating?

Just a few random thoughts!

You are post-meno aren't you?

Hurdity x

[oldsheep]

Hi, and thanks Hurdity.  Yes, I'm on oral Utrogestan, 100mg a night. No breaks.
I change the Evorel 75 twice a week, monday morning and thursday afternoon. I'm careful to smooth it out - I put it on my lower abdomen so I can see it.
Nothing at all's changed for over 2 years, so this is very weird.

I will go 2 weeks with hardly any sleep, and then only REM sleep (dreams/wake up etc), then it will settle for a few nights.
The longer that goes on, the more my fibromyalgia flares up.
The boobs swell up much of the time lately (since April). They went down to more normal size this weekend, then got bigger again.

Last time the oestradiol blood test result was 221. I'm having another tomorrow (2 days after the patch went on).

[oldsheep]

climbing the walls with anxiety this morning. No sleep last night at all, despite taking sleep pills. Upset tum too. I was up at 4am putting dry eye drops in to my eyes which felt like they were being stabbed.
Everything I remember from pre HRT low oestrogen, except the hot flushes.
So sick of this. Just feel the patches aren't working properly. Can they just stop working? 

[Kathleen]

Hello oldsheep.

I just wanted to send you hugs as lack of sleep does terrible things to us as you know.

I am not one of the HRT experts but if you feel your 75 mcg patch is insufficient could you increase your dose to 100 mcg? Perhaps experiment with cutting some extra off another patch and wearing that as well for the time being?

Wishing you well and I hope you feel better soon.

K.

[oldsheep]

thanks Kathleen x

just got a bit teary, ridiculous I know, as the first possible meno clinic appointment is wed 17th so have to keep going until then. I'm very tempted to start experimenting to see if it helps or hinders. If I didn't have such swollen boobs, I'd be inclined to try 100mg. And if that makes it worse, then down to 50mg. I still have a box of 50s lying around from before it was increased to 75.

That week OH is away sunday to friday so I'd hoped to go to France to see my great friend who is terminally ill. Luckily I didn't book as I thought this might happen. It does normally take a month to fit in an 'overbooked' appointment. (my routine one is for Feb 2016)

[CLKD]

How about asking a Pharmacist 

[Hurdity]

Do you have any digestive problems - which could affect the absorption of the progesterone leading to sudden surges? Although - I would have thought that might lead to irregular spotting. How long have you been post-menopausal or don't you know, and sorry I can't remember how old you are either! oestrogen drops to its lowest around two years after last period so some women experience resurgence of symptoms then. If you are not experiencing a return of flushes and sweats I doubt you will need to increase the dose further although if you are having other symptoms maybe. It is odd though to suddenly feel like this. Sorry I can't be of any help!

Hurdity x

[CLKD]

  ……….

[oldsheep]

thanks xxx

I'm 55. I've been on HRT continuously for 4 years. The last time I had very swollen breasts and insomnia was when the gel I was using stopped working.
It had occurred to me, Hurdity, that the progesterone isn't being well absorbed for some reason. That might explain why for 2 nights I slept well as I take it last thing at night and perhaps those nights it did 'work'. ie it's not the oestrogen at all, but an imbalance.
I'm going back on to prebiotics and probiotics and maybe take gaviscon an hour before I take the Utrogestan.  My boobs are enormous this afternoon- very uncomfortable. I'm normally a 34B and these are almost 38s I think.

[oldsheep]

had a chat with OH last night, who knows nothing about HRT but pointed out that I'll probably get 10 mins with a registrar on the 17th, so why not see if anything works in the meantime - so I've cut a little bit off the patch today. I kept the bit I cut off so if things go wrong/no sleep etc I can always stick it back on.
The patch has dots all round the edges so I cut off 2 of them. It's on until monday so will see how it goes.

I got about 5 hours sleep in bits last night, so my brain thought it might be the last day of the patch, when the oestrogen is a bit less (?). Also took the Utrogestan 1/2 an hour before bed and a definite 3 hours after evening meal. Back on prebiotics too in case it's what you suggested Hurdity.

[CLKD]

Trial and Error is so tiring