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[Two hoots]

Ahem runner was a Petit Basset Griffon Vendeen  we decided if we got one it would be called Griff 

We are not getting a dog, but that doesn't stop him pointing out the breeds he'd like 

[CLKD]

Wouldn't touch one with a barge pole.  They run.  OFF.  Don't come home.  Bit like Afghans ......... off and away  which in countryside with live-stock can be tragic   

We have a breeder of Griffons locally - out of 12 she is able to let one off as he will return, probably 'cos she's got Girls with her 

[Two hoots]

A few weeks ago the local newspaper was reporting a story of a puppy that was taken to a woodland for a run about, but went missing, a policeman heard about it because the puppy was owned by a child with autism if I remember correctly. Anyway the policeman was told the colour and model of a car seen nearby, he tracked down the car in his own time with the help of Cctv cameras in the area. The car had travelled from near Swansea to Surrey    luckily the dog was returned to his owner. 

I bet the people who took the puppy didn't expect to be traced and I hope the policeman gets an award for doing it in his own time.

[CLKD]

I read that too and thought the Officer should get a Medal ........ I do worry about children with 'needs' having pets, how to explain what happens when the dog needs putting to sleep 

[CLKD]

Raw feeding is the way to go.  Get the butcher to chop meat into lb lots.  Bagged up and frozen.  Mince some of it.  Beef and possibly lamb but never pork.  Chicken wings are soft enough because birds don't get to live until their bones are hard.  It is important to remember to take it out of the freezer 'in time'. 

My friend feeds his whippet/lurchers raw.  With liquidised mixed fruits and veg. poured over twice a week plus minerals that he buys from his Vet..   When he first had dogs he fed tinned foods but one had bad skin and itched all the while, when I suggested raw he decided and within 3/4 weeks he had lovely cool skin which was soft.  It benefits their teeth too. Raw carrots, cabbage, cauli daily instead of company produced chew sticks.  Kept free of biscuits too.

So many Vet Surgeries are tied in with Commercial Pet Food Companies so can no longer give informed advice.  Ours is in with Hills.  Pets even get a commercial tin of 'get well' food and card  .  I would rather have money off the Bill! 

I trust my Vets completely.  But don't agree that they are now 'tied in' ........ if they can't afford to run a Practice without incentives then choose another profession?

[jillydoll]

Yes that's exactly right CLKD.

I think most are ‘in' with Hills.
Horrible stuff...
We fed our dogs raw chicken , and raw chicken wings, eat the lot.....but they can get an allergie to chicken if not careful....never feed pork!.....
Our dog has a mixture, rabbit, beef, venison, turkey, duck, lamb, and goose.
Always tripe, everyday, but with one of the above....
For treats, she gets fruit  that's been made into a biscuit, no additives, no nothing in them.
She eats better than us!

[jaypo]

Oh no,it's hills she's on,the protein in it comes from chicken feathers!?!?
She is,I have to say so much better on it but it's hugely expensive as you can only get it from vets or vets online. I'm at a loss as what to do tbh,it's helped her VERY dodgey stomach but not her itching

[CLKD]

Go the raw route?  Buy fresh chicken initially - add gradually - a few chopped pieces under the usual food.  Lots of raw carrots, cauli, ginger, garlic ...........   protein in feathers is made up of keratin


Certain breeds, i.e. Westies, are known to have allergies - probably too much close breeding!  Think what dogs would eat in the wild and it wouldn't be from a can 'cos they can't use an opener  .  They would eat bones, fur, gut - and if necessary throw it up to eat again.  Most canines in the wild lay down to eat. 

Ours have all helped themselves to strawberries, bilberries and raspberries in the garden 

[CLKD]

Abstract

FEATHER keratin is the outstanding protein fibre structure that still lacks an interpretation generally acceptable in any detail.

It has long been known1 that its X-ray diffraction diagram is of a β-type with the strong indication that the residue-length is only about 31/10 Ã…. instead of the 31/10 Ã…. and 31/10 Ã…. found in β-keratin and silk fibroin, and it has corpuscular properties besides2, especially as demonstrated in the paper by Bear and Rugo3, supported also by physico-chemical studies and the finding that the unit is probably a cyclic polypeptide4.

 In Bear and Rugo's scheme the structure is based on a net of corpuscular units the nodes of which are at approximately (0, 0), (0, ½), (½, ¼), and (½, ¾), the plane of the net containing both the main-chain and side-chain directions.

Continuing from this point and associated observations by the same authors, it is the purpose of this communication to state what we believe to be a very strong case for the structure of the corpuscles themselves. The principal steps in the argument may be summarized as follows :

at this point the above article stopped  .  Then I found this:

Protein

Feathers are 85% protein so when birds moult, replacing their feathers, laying hens will usually stop producing eggs. Eggs are made up mainly of protein and it is too much for a hen to produce new feathers as well as eggs.

Pure breeds usually take longer to moult than hybrid hens. Occasionally hens will lay the odd egg during the moult but most will take a break. W

hen a hen is going to moult, her plumage will take on a very dull appearance. It normally takes about 6 weeks for a young healthy pure breed hen to complete a moult. Older hens will take longer.

During a moult, birds do not lose all of their feathers at the same time. This is because in nature, they still need to be able to escape from predators so they do not lose all of their flight feathers at the same time.

[jaypo]

Thanks so much for taking the time to find that clkd,very much appreciated xxx

[CLKD]

You are welcome. It's all about networking.  I went the canned food route for my pets but it wasn't until 6 weeks B4 she died that I found out that the symptoms of flea allergy in one cat was actually, food allergy  .  All those years when I could have eased her skin irritation and it never crossed my mind  we had a free sample of whiskers which she loved and she stopped itching.  I will never get over the guilt 

They would know by smell if the recipe in canned foods was altered  and would simply walk away from the saucer.  As they were kept inside they couldn't fill up on mice etc..

When changing a pet's diet do it gradually.  To stop it flooding through the gut too fast!

[CLKD]

I don't have dogs.    I have a friend who has and has fed them raw for years. [see above].   He is very organised with 2 freezers, plus a smaller one for human foods.  He has 3 children, well small adults now and they never had problems.  Dogs were fed in a shed so bowls etc. kept away from crawlers .....

There is little risk if the dog doesn't kiss people.  Which is a habit left over from when the bitch would regurgitate to the pups.  To get the bitch to bring up food they would nibble round her lips and jaw which stimulates the vomit reflex in canines.  They don't kiss people because they love them  it's "feed me and feed me now" - a habit that they never lose and which can be discouraged.  Ours were not allowed to 'kiss' hands or faces.

Children can be taught to keep away from food bowls etc..  I grew up with gun dogs which were fed various food stuffs and we never had upset tummies.  [from swimming in the sea but that's another issue ...... ]

Vets will do lots of expensive tests when often a change of diet will solve most problems.  Lots of commercial food stuffs, 2 which most Surgeries seem tied into these days, even those that are supposedly healthy, have additives that dogs simply wouldn't access in the wild.  i.e. biscuits/wheat.  Grass yes, from the gut of any prey they bring down as well as eating grass.  Mine loved that thick new reed kind of grass in the woods and she was never sick after.  They also scavange without ill effects too - the worse thing that my cocker found was a cow's afterbirth  tasty.  Apparently 

Steamed food: so is all the goodness steamed out of it ?  How are the veg and fruit served: dried, crushed  . If I remember when near a pet store I'll have a look-see . 

What would you consider a 'good' make of dog food that doesn't have un-necessaries in?  That yucky 'chum' was the one vets would recommend years ago, B4 additives were put in to bulk it up.  Oh the smell but the dogs with sensitive guts loved it.  Mine loved 'butchers tripe' ....... >holds nose< 

[CLKD]

Germs.  We need a certain % and I have never met any child that has had upset tummies by interacting with dogs.  When I was growing up dogs were kept outside in kennels.  Or allowed into the kitchen by no further, it was thought that keeping working dogs indoors 'spoilt' them  but we kids would find our ways to the kennels ........  . 

I would be more worried about worms ;-).  I've never had those either, nor nits .........

I am around dogs a lot even though we don't have any here.  Owned dogs; 'babysat' dogs for owners at work; walked dogs for others .........

That Country Hunter sounds almost good enough to eat ...... remember 'bonios'? I've got through several of those in my time  .  as well as gnawing on Shapes in different colours especially the charcoal ones ........ it was said that there is better hygiene in animal food preparation factories than those that canned human foods 

[CLKD]

Also, we all carry salmonella.  "Salmonella infection (salmonellosis) is a common bacterial disease that affects the intestinal tract. Salmonella bacteria typically live in animal and human intestines and are shed through feces. Humans become infected most frequently through contaminated water or food .........  "



I didn't use products after the first few years though if travelling abroad dogs need a lot of chemicals applied  .  If I didn't C worms in the poo ....... if I saw fleas I spent hours catching them, brought out my hunting instincts  .  I could write a book on fleas ........ however, there is part of the life cycle which requires worming.  I wasn't keen on yearly 'boosters' either.

Pet dogs certain reside inside, my used to crawl under my side of the bed on very cold nights ......... never bothered trying to wake Himself 

[CLKD]

I met a Welsh foxhound this afternoon, a new breed for me  .  Thought it was a thinner Mink Hound so no doubt there's a bit of that in it too, as well as a French hound and Bruxelle Griffon Vendeen .........