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[Dancinggirl]

Brightlight and honorsmum
I can really understand your wish to understand what is happening to you.  The menopause has been called 'The Change' with good reason - we need to change in many ways to adjust ourselves mentally and physically to what is basically a natural part of growing older. The problem is this 'natural process' affects each women differently - it can sometimes arrive early and sometimes very late.  WE are living longer and the quality of our life in older age may very well depend on what we do at this stage in our lives.

Flushes and night sweats are the symptoms that are commonly known about and I certainly thought they were something that would just last for a few months and then I would feel like I did before puberty!!! Nobody warns you that these symptoms can go on many years. Then there are the taboo symptoms of vaginal atrophy, bladder problems, prolapse, joint pains, crippling anxiety etc. - how many women are quietly suffering with these really quite nasty problems, too shy or embarrassed to ask their doctors for help. 

scriv and I share a very similar story regarding our experience of an early menopause.  We were given good advice which we followed - like scriv I only used a low dose of oestrogen and I think this is why I am experiencing such problems with vaginal atrophy and bladder problems now - I should have had a higher dose of oestrogen through my 40s.
Modern research and medicine is enabling many people with a wide variety of life limiting problems to live normal lives through appropriate treatment. Research has shown that a lack of oestrogen before the natural age of menopause (which is around 53) can and often does bring long term health problems.  I personally believe the doctors who do not prescribe HRT for women who experience an early menopause are being negligent unless there are health issues that prevent that women using HRT.
'QUALITY OF LIFE' is very, very important and our mantra on MM is often expressed with the advice -"if the meno symptoms are impeding your life then try HRT to see if it helps". If you can reduce the risk of developing VA and bladder problems too early, delay the onset osteoporosis, reduce your risk of heart disease and bowel cancer then HRT is worth considering.  If HRT stops most of your hot flushes and nights sweats so you can get a decent nights sleep and continue to hold down a job to help support your family, then HRT is worth trying. Anxiety seems to be one of the worst meno symptoms - so many women are now on ADS when HRT could and possibly should have been the first option.
HRT doesn't suit everyone but modern medicine is there to help and HRT is 'natural' these days - it can replace what should be there naturally. 

I have experienced life without HRT - from the age of 49 - 53 I was not on HRT, I struggled through, hoping things would get better - those are my lost years and if I'd had this site to advice me at the time I wouldn't have held out so long. I'm about to turn 59 and I'm back on systemic HRT with Vagifem for my vaginal atrophy and bladder problems - I hope I will be able to use HRT for many years to come so I can continue to work, enjoy life and be able to support my friends and family.
I hope you don't feel I am pressurising you with this post - it's just that I have found the vaginal atrophy utterly miserable and I dread to think what it would have been like if I hadn't had HRT.  HRT is a personal choice but there is nothing to stop you trying it for 3-6 months and if it doesn't suit you then you can stop.
Good luck   DG x

[BrightLight]

Hi Dancingirl - I really do understand and appreciate your desire to share your experiences and advocate the treatment that has worked for you.  It's only natural that you would.  Of course you don't want other women to suffer symptoms when they don't need too and neither do I. 

My approach at the moment is to work out what the symptoms are that I can't live with, are any of them 'signs' of degenerating situations and what do I need to do about that and what do I think about HRT for protecting my future health?

As you say each person is so unique and until I speak with my doctor I won't know what my plan is.  I need to ask lots of questions about 'symptoms' and prevention.  I am still of the opinion that my main future health risk that HRT is obvious for is osteoparosis - it is clearly a firstline treatment for that.  What my risk is for osteoparosis is unclear to me right now and I will talk to my GP about that.

The interesting thing for me is that since I discovered I was having early menopause I have felt shocked and upset that I haven't taken care of my endocrine system better.  My ignorance not just about menopause but the intrinsic role of hormones throughout our body.  I have every belief that I have had hormone imbalance and subsequent 'symptoms'  for many years (as I am sure other women have) and that actually the truth might be that I have already 'weakened' my system.  So for me, this whole situation is bigger than just looking at whether I take HRT or not.

I do take it seriously that I have a hormone imbalance - naturally so at menopause, but other symptoms and challenges like anxiety go way back and regular HRT may or may not be part of the solution for me.  I really feel instinctively that a personalised prescription is the way to go - if I can meet my GP half way and he agrees to test hormones as a baseline to begin with, then that would be great. 

I am not convinced that estrogen loss is the whole story with menopause and hormonal imbalance, I actually think that estrogen dominance although controversial is the major problem of our time and that hormone therapy needs and should be based on individual need.

Testosterone is an important factor in bone health, for all I know I have lost this completely if my ovaries have failed.  How is my doctor going to know that if he doesn't investigate my levels?  I may or may not be producing enough estrogen from elsewhere in my body - I am also not convinced that the symptoms I have are indicative of estrogen loss,  some of the things I currently experience could be low progesterone, testosterone or simply swings that will level without long term effect.  At least I want to have those levels tested (I can hear people say that this is irrelvant ). 

The last thing in the world I want to do is straight away accept a blanket prescription that may just be causing me another imbalance - as you say it may come down to trying it out and seeing but I hope you can appreciate that I want to go into this with my eyes wide open and for me, a lot of this isn't an exact science and shouldn't be presented that way.  Some benefits are clear - symptom control and osteoparosis but in my case, at the moment, it isn't clear what 'formula' is best to reach my goal which is hormone balance (my whole system) - whether that is a post menopausal state of hormone levels or one enhanced by hormone therapy or one that is a mixture of things that address the other areas of my life as well. 

Really all I want to try and get is a more individualised picture of my own hormonal profile and how my body works, what it needs and how to get it.

[honorsmum]

DG, your use of the words "lost years" is so pertinent for me.
I can already see how that could so easily happen. Peri/meno may not be an illness as such, but it can have the same affect, mentally - I already feel like it's affecting my life in a disabling way, and since my children are still young, I feel they (and I) are missing out.
Quality of life - definitely. I won't be a martyr to my hormones.

[peegeetip]

Hi Brightlight

we've all tried to help you out and give you the spirit and knowledge we've built up so far.

If you are still confused or unsure then I suggest you read more and review what people have tried to impart to you so far.

However not sure what you mean by the comment to DancingGirl:

"advocate the treatment that has worked for you"

DG's not advocating anything, she's simply sharing her experience about what she's encountered, things she's done, possible mistakes we've inadvertently encountered along the way.
This is for your benefit to help you avoid the many pitfalls, avoidance and lies you'll no doubt encounter too.

If you choose to not go with HRT then there is a high chance you'll go onto develop some of the chronic things I've encountered so far in terms of urinary issues (now resolved by HRT).
As DG has also mentioned VA and other items are held with such a TABOO still that the medical people don't fully understand the extent of pain and suffering out there.
A lot of people still just put up and don't seek help and advice they deserve to have.

There is no point trying to paint these problems in a better light.
Its not there to panic you but it is what it is.
Some people

If you choose to go with HRT then that is up to you too.
We've tried to show you the latest video's on safety posted by MM site.
It shows you that upto date research is disproving most of the common held beliefs on HRT.
There is always going to be a risk of BC or Endo Cancer once your around 50 or more.
But those will still exist whether you take or not.
We've tried to show you that often our lifestyle will have more effect on this than taking some preventative HRT each day. The video highlights this also.

Take your time, its up to you.
For me at the time when I was deciding to go with HRT I felt let down.
Why had nobody explained this, what do I do.
I used this site and other information to make that initial jump.
I can't help but to say that I'm glad I did.
But I'm not telling others to jump the same way by just sharing my experience
 

[honorsmum]

Brightlight - there is mention of bio identical preparations on Dr Annie Evans site. Worth a read.

I suspect the issue of tailoring preparations to the individual is that our hormones fluctuate by the day/hour. So, not only is a single blood test not going to help, but presumably ,unless you're going to have preparations for every single day, even a tailored prep isn't going to address this.

[BrightLight]

Hi Brightlight

we've all tried to help you out and give you the spirit and knowledge we've built up so far.

If you are still confused or unsure then I suggest you read more and review what people have tried to impart to you so far.

However not sure what you mean by the comment to DancingGirl:

"advocate the treatment that has worked for you"

DG's not advocating anything, she's simply sharing her experience about what she's encountered, things she's done, possible mistakes we've inadvertently encountered along the way.
This is for your benefit to help you avoid the many pitfalls, avoidance and lies you'll no doubt encounter too.

If you choose to not go with HRT then there is a high chance you'll go onto develop some of the chronic things I've encountered so far in terms of urinary issues (now resolved by HRT).
As DG has also mentioned VA and other items are held with such a TABOO still that the medical people don't fully understand the extent of pain and suffering out there.
A lot of people still just put up and don't seek help and advice they deserve to have.

There is no point trying to paint these problems in a better light.
Its not there to panic you but it is what it is.
Some people

If you choose to go with HRT then that is up to you too.
We've tried to show you the latest video's on safety posted by MM site.
It shows you that upto date research is disproving most of the common held beliefs on HRT.
There is always going to be a risk of BC or Endo Cancer once your around 50 or more.
But those will still exist whether you take or not.
We've tried to show you that often our lifestyle will have more effect on this than taking some preventative HRT each day. The video highlights this also.

Take your time, its up to you.
For me at the time when I was deciding to go with HRT I felt let down.
Why had nobody explained this, what do I do.
I used this site and other information to make that initial jump.
I can't help but to say that I'm glad I did.
But I'm not telling others to jump the same way by just sharing my experience
 

Hey - I am exploring That's it.  I didn't know that the menopause and it's treatment, philosophy etc was so political   I am an open minded person and definately reading everything presented, it takes time to form an opinion and I am trying not to let fear run my thinking - there is definately a lot of fear based comment on this website.  Of course I want to take care and not bury my head in the sand, there is a middle ground to be found in accepting all experiences and opinions.  I do feel a slight irritation and frustration towards me - that's OK, we are all different

[BrightLight]

Brightlight - there is mention of bio identical preparations on Dr Annie Evans site. Worth a read.

I suspect the issue of tailoring preparations to the individual is that our hormones fluctuate by the day/hour. So, not only is a single blood test not going to help, but presumably ,unless you're going to have preparations for every single day, even a tailored prep isn't going to address this.

Thanks I will have a read - I suspect you are right about the fluctuating hormones, it's logical. 

I am just keen to explore the approach of dosage a bit more, although the levels change there might be a balance to be struck at each stage of our bodies adjusting.  The private GP I spoke to last week offered two scenarios for me, one to use lowest dose HRT through the NHS having worked out whether my estrogen was really low or not, ie as a pointer to where I am on the menopausal timeline.  If my levels have plummeted or are still in flux - I understand that my particular situation might mean I have gone through the fluctuating stage and therefore a levelling out might be happening.

Second option to use a prescription, perhaps starting with progesterone and a small amount of estrogen (if my estrogen stores are still high) and then review in 3 months.  My 'transition' appears to be fairly quick and I am mostly interested to try and find out where on the line I am.  I do appreciate that mostly in perimenopause things are all over the place - it may be I have already gone through this phase.  I'd like to find out.

[BrightLight]

DG, your use of the words "lost years" is so pertinent for me.
I can already see how that could so easily happen. Peri/meno may not be an illness as such, but it can have the same affect, mentally - I already feel like it's affecting my life in a disabling way, and since my children are still young, I feel they (and I) are missing out.
Quality of life - definitely. I won't be a martyr to my hormones.

I totally understand. I hope you can figure this out because I really have lost 12-18 months in not understanding my particular situation and now it appears hormones were indeed to 'blame'.  I am not sure what you can do if the GP isn't open to HRT for you - they would not entertain menopause as a factor for me until the chance FSH result that I had.

[Rowan]

I am not sure saying that if Brightlight  doesn't take HRT there is a high chance she will go on to develop chronic things such as urinary issues is being very helpful..

We are all so different in how we age and what chronic problems we develop. I have never experienced vaginal dryness, prolapse or urinary problems. I have has breaks from HRT and not had problems, I am more off my patch then on it.

There must be millions of women in the world who live to a healthy old age without taking HRT.

BrightLight I think you maybe are over thinking the whole thing, HRT is no way  imperative to take and if you do decide to try it and it doesn't suit you, you can always come off it.

Make you own mind up, ones woman's experience is not another's, we all have our own unique menopause journey, we all react to HRT differently, some thrive on it others decide its not for them and come off it.

I can't help thinking that worrying and trying to reason about it all causes more stress to the body and mind and does no good.

Take what you need from books, research and others opinions but do what is best for you.  I do think though if you have been confirmed as having an early menopause, this implies ovarian failure and maybe HRT should be considered.

[BrightLight]

BrightLight I think you maybe are over thinking the whole thing, HRT is no way  imperative to take and if you do decide to try it and it doesn't suit you, you can always come off it.

Make you own mind up, ones woman's experience is not another's, we all have our own unique menopause journey, we all react to HRT differently, some thrive on it others decide its not for them and come off it.

I can't help thinking that worrying and trying to reason about it all causes more stress to the body and mind and does no good.

Take what you need from books, research and others opinions but do what is best for you. 

Thank you, I totally agree with your observations. Thankfully I am landing back in the place you speak of - measured, considered choice.  I have allowed the whole 'diagnosis' of my mildly spotting period being perimenopause and various other little signs to get out of proportion.  The reading and research is ending and I feel out of the woods on the panic reaction front and heading for the destination of knowing whats best for me again.

I have been a bit scared by the things I have read here and elsewhere and forgetting to remember that there are the opposite experiences as well.  I lost all my confidence for a bit and only saw B&W options and outcomes.

I am taking up the offer of talking to my GP about HRT and take it from there, I now realise that yes indeed I can take it or leave it, try it and change my mind - pretty sure apart from getting used to this phase in my life, there isn't any panic - which is how I felt when I came here looking for information.

[Millykin]

Oh Brightlight I really feel for you. I'm 44 diagnosed as peri meno at 41. At first I noticed my periods being every 3 months then nothing for 6 months and a couple of night sweats. I mentioned to GP and had few tests. I didn't hesitate at taking HRT as I didn't know much at the time. 3 months later the prog in Elleste duet didn't agree with me so I stopped. Read up on things and started panicking about clots ( my daughter had one to kidney followed by both lungs) and breast cancer (2 aunts on dads side although they never had HRT) so my frame of mind was I'm never touching HRT! I'll do it my way wanting to know everything about my body at the time. 6 months later I just couldn't take it anymore, flushes, palpitstions, dryness down below, feeling unwell, no control over myself. I spoke to GP and told her I wanted HRT I got Femoston 1/10. 10 months on I feel back to myself enjoying life again. I had a feeling my body was crying out for something and I had lost 2/3 years of my life. I try not to read bad reports, don't think about risks, all I know is everything seemed to be going downhill pretty quick for me and I didn't want that I don't look back now I just see it as I need it, I'm under 50 I want a life and some protection.  I can understand your dilemma and wanting natural root, that's your choice just like when I wanted natural. We are all different, have different views on it. I just wanted to wish you all the best and hope to find something that suits you. Your thread has been really interesting. X

[honorsmum]

DG, your use of the words "lost years" is so pertinent for me.
I can already see how that could so easily happen. Peri/meno may not be an illness as such, but it can have the same affect, mentally - I already feel like it's affecting my life in a disabling way, and since my children are still young, I feel they (and I) are missing out.
Quality of life - definitely. I won't be a martyr to my hormones.

I totally understand. I hope you can figure this out because I really have lost 12-18 months in not understanding my particular situation and now it appears hormones were indeed to 'blame'.  I am not sure what you can do if the GP isn't open to HRT for you - they would not entertain menopause as a factor for me until the chance FSH result that I had.

Besides my GP hasn't shown any interest in considering perimenopause, and because I suspect she is anti HRT from something she said, I have opted to go privately and see a women's health specialist, Dr Annie Evans.
She apparently does not go by blood tests, but listens to a women's medical history, background, symptoms etc.
I think whatever path one takes, the most important thing is to be able to trust implicitly the person in whose hands you place yourself - from all that I've read about Dr Evans, she is that person in a lot of women's s case.

[peegeetip]

Hi Silverlady

you seem to have answered your own point.

You use HRT so have avoided some of the chronic issues that come with menopause.
Even if you've had a break your body still benefited from it.

So your experience of not having urinary issues is not valid in comparison to mine which appeared sooner prior to taking HRT. This got better over a period of time whilst on HRT also as it has for others in the forum taking HRT.

I wish someone had pointed out these things to me sooner.
Should we all avoid speaking about the more distressing parts of peri and meno?

[Hurdity]

Wow - such a lot if interesting discussion and points being made!

Also great post Dancinggirl by the way (the long one a few posts down)

Yes BrightLight, as already said I think you have been scared into your current thought process by the GP and your blood test. It's really good that you are reading so much but you may well not need to panic yet! All the points made about HRT and health issues are assuming you are very near menopause - which you really don't know yet! You may well by an unusual case ie just miss one period and then that's it - but if not, there is no urgency to take HRT except if it will help with some of the symptoms that are affecting you.

Many women around your age don't even think to go to the doc about menopause if a period is missed - but I can understand why you did in your personal circumstances. So - for these women (like me - but I was older, I didn't start to take HRT until probably 18 months to 2 years after the last regular period ie flushes were coming and going etc) the first part of peri may well happen in blissful ignorance and perhaps women will attribute their symptoms to hormones without analysing too deeply and just getting on with life if they can - tears, worrying and all (in my case!).

You are only having an early menopause if your actual last period is at the ages mentioned ( ie before 45) - not the age at which you start to miss periods. So it is likely you will be some years below the average age of 51-2, but maybe not much - so at some point you might consider taking HRT for all the very good health reasons that have been expressed.

As I said on another thread, (or was it this one?!) it is not a question that you will or will not suffer from any of the health conditions - but all this information is obtained through statistics and clinical trials, many of which (relating to chronic diseases) were reported in the World Menopause Day paper I and others have linked to. There will also be statistics on VA and osteoporosis elsewhere too. One cannot draw any conclusion from any woman saying - well I had an early menopause, didn't take HRT and I'm fine (apart from being pleased for her!). Like I said on another thread - it's a question of assessing the likelihood of any of these things occurring - we don't want to do the experiment on ourselves, and therefore those who have read the information have shared it to help you.

As for the hormones and balancing them - I agree with silverlady that perhaps you are over thinking the whole thing. Aside from making sure you attend to all the major lifestyle areas we have all discussed, and getting blood tests for the main hormones that are affected at this stage of life - you dont' need to worry about the rest - they will just carry on working - the human body is designed to do this! You won't have damaged your endocrine system throughout your life - it will be working fine and doing its own thing with feedback loops - just keep yourself healthy and stress-free! Great to read about how it works though! You have stimulated me to read up on the biology where I am very rusty!!

Testosterone - it might be good to get this tested at some point or as a baseline  - it does decline with age and affects some more than others and the test not readily done on NHS. However if you still have a healthy libido then it's doubtful there is anything wrong with yours..... Some testosterone is still produced by the adrenal glands as I think is progesterone, in men and women, so don't worry that you won't have any left! Progesterone testing won't tell you anything - because it exists in very small amounts in the first part of the menstrual cycle (the "oestrogen dominant" phase - usually when women feel at their best) as well as in post-menopause, and then in large amounts in the second part of the cycle ( and pregnancy) when it rises and then falls fairly rapidly. You can assume that when you miss periods you may well have an anovulatory cycle and won't produce any progesterone (this is why you probably felt calm - no big fluctuations - andf you oestrogen levels wouldn't have plummeted suddenly as they do before a period).

The only major change at menopause is the cessation of the menstrual cycle and the extreme reduction in oestrogen which is why attention is focussed on this - because its loss has such a profound effect on women's health and well-being.

Another ramble which I hope isn't too disjointed - there is a lot in your post I wanted to pick up on and sorry if I've repeated myself!

Hurdity x

[Rowan]

Totally disagree with what you have said peegeetip.

I have only used a very low dose patch and mostly cut in half for bone health because I have had a hysterectomy ( (was 53) and I was not having any VA problems or urinary problems before I had the op or after.

When I was 56 I took a break from the patch for eighteen months and still had no problems. There is percentage of women who don't have these problems, I think its 40%, Estrogen for vaginal health is said only to be of help while its being used for women prone to these problems, stopping it causes the dryness and urinary problems to return, I have read that many times on MM. So there for my using a very low dose patch was not the reason I have not had VA or I would have had it when had 18 months break from the patch if I was going to  develop it.

I only resumes the patch for bone health. Its the main reason I have used the patch.