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[Dancinggirl]

We had no end of problems with finding the right home for my lovely mother-in-law and most of her hard earned savings and funds from the sale of her sheltered flat went on her care. She was very distressed that any money was going towards this care as she desperately wanted her two children to inherit all her savings. She had dementia and in fact lived far longer than expected as they looked after her so well in this home. When she got distressed about the money I just 'white lied' to her about how it was being paid for.
The recent posts on these thread illustrate my point that the whole thing is too unwieldy, it is grossly unfair, stressful for all concerned and I expect there is an unnecessary waste of funds at all sorts of levels. We have been the sandwich generation that may well have had the time and resources to ensure our elderly relatives have the care they need.  Our children may well not have this time or the resources and frankly I wouldn't want them to have to deal with all the stress.  Of course we need to face this issue but I think it is really up to the government, from all sides of the political spectrum, to look at what needs to be done, simplify it, make it more efficient and if we all have to pay more NI to receive good care in our old age then so be it.
DG x

[CLKD]

What a good thread.  Thanks for all the input.  I believe that in England if children buy the property from parents, that they have to charge rent and rates as if it's a business arrangement.  We tried to encourage my Mum to keep details of all the monies she pays out since Dad died in 2006.  However 

As for using up savings, that else is it for?  If parents want to give their children a surprise it is better to give it as they 'go along' to avoid inheritance tax etc..  Savings should be used for care otherwise.

Gives us a lot to think about!

[Hurdity]

What an excellent thread - so much to discuss and of crucial importance as life expectancy continues to extend way beyond retirement - and probably way beyond what was envisaged when our National Insurance system began.

Fortunately I haven't had to think about this properly yet (mother in good health, independent, and still in her own home) although it does concern me every time I hear about it - so I know very little about the system and all its complexities.

I completely agree with Dancinggirl - this needs sorting urgently irrespective of political ideology, and we all need to pay for it. If all parties agreed we would increase NI etc with a specific portion understood to be some sort of care bond or something (really know nothing about this!) then it would prevent any one party scoring points or losing votes about increasing spending. The standard of care could hopefully be increased so as to be good quality across the board including state funded care.

I also agree with CLKD - there is no obligation or right to pass anything onto our children - of course it would be nice, but if our houses have to be sold  - then so be it - we've bought them after all! Many people haven't this luxury. It is the standard of care for those that run out of money that is crucial.

The other thorny issue which has been referred to is the nursing care vs social care, and the distinction between them. My older brother has a slow degenerative illness which will mean he will need care at some point - maybe for some things fairly soon. However this will count as social care, therefore it won't receive funding, even though it is a medical condition, the same as if he needed social care through "normal" ageing - whatever that is - and perhaps it is right that there is no distinction, although in his case the social care needs could well be needed for a very long time.

I think it may be different in Scotland? Why is the system so much better in many respects in Scotland - prescriptions, student tuition fees etc? You don't pay higher taxes etc do you? I don't understand how the money can be found there but not here in England. Bit of a digression .....

Hurdity x

[honeybun]

Yes some things are better here but who knows how long it will last. Much smaller population may have something to do with it.

I hope we can keep mother where she is until....well you know. We do have a bit of a tricky situation with her house though and how we would fix it out heaven only knows. Many years ago when council houses were for sale my sister and I bought my mothers house. We gave her the money and she bought it in her own name because she was the tenant. You were not allowed to sell for a set amount of years....I can't remember how long but about twenty years ago the ownership of the house was transferred into my and my sisters name so we are the legal owners. We have no way to prove it was our money that paid for the house.........so how would it work if she needs to go into a home. It's not her property and never has been. It's worth a good bit now.....bit of a dilemma.

Honeyb
X

[honeybun]

Really not sure. It could be seen as being gifted to us as a way of avoiding having to pay for care but it was done so many years ago. Neither her nor my step father ever paid rent to us but they made lots of changes to the house.

I think it could potentially be a nightmare. As far as sis and I were concerned it was an investment for our old age.


Honeyb
X

[CLKD]

Honeybun - this was done via a Solicitor at the time? if so the date may well mean avoiding inheritance tax

[honeybun]

Yes all done by solicitor who holds the deeds.

Just to make it more complicated the loan was actually taken out by my hubby....so technically 


Honeyb
X

[CLKD]

Have a chat with the Solicitor?  There will be Deeds in your/sister's names? if not get it sorted ………. 

[bramble]

HB,
I think 7 years is the magic number. If you became owners more than 7 years ago, then the house is yours. If your mum had to go into care within that 7 years then the 'proceeds' of the house 'sale' would be required to pay for care. So you are ok.

Bramble

[Dancinggirl]

We have taken advice from a financial adviser and are trying to make plans so as much of our money can go to our children as possible.  Our son has mild special needs, is therefore vulnerable so we need to try to set him up so he is not at the mercy of the state. Our kids are unlikely to earn the kind of money that will get them on the property ladder so we may well have to down size to help them. Whilst our pensions will not be too bad if we manage to work till we are 70, the income may twiddle in real terms and if we pass too much of our savings and assets to our children in our lifetime this could cause problems as we get more frail and perhaps need support.
What gets me is that those who have worked hard to buy a home and save a bit for a pension end up having to pay for their care whereas there will be many who never save anything yet they will still be looked after. 
My parents-in-law were a classic case in point; they had divorced when my husband was 16 as my father-in-law had affairs and was getting the family into terrible debt. He ended up living in a lovely Alms flat for gentlemen of meagre means and continued his smoking, drinking and enjoying his life on his state pension with not a thought for any one else.  When he got to 87 he became ill and frail and was put into a very good nursing home with wonderful round the clock care where he eventually died but he didn't have to pay for any of it.  My mother-in-law had worked all her life and actually worked well into her 60s in a menial book keeping job for the local authority, saved everything she could, bought a small victorian terraced house that was a wreck and she renovated it herself.  She helped both her children whenever she could and often helped with their finances etc. When we could no longer support her in her retirement flat and she had to go into a home, most of her hard earned savings and assets went on her care - as I said before, it really distressed her that her money was being used for the care home.
I am already having to pay for private medical and dental treatment on things I really feel should be available for all - I saw a gynae privately about my meno symptoms and now I've got to fork out about £1000 to save a tooth because the NHS dentist won't do the treatment! We are far from well off but I can do without holidays so would rather get the treatment I need with the money.
I would like to know that whatever our financial situation is we will be treated with kindness and respect by well trained staff and I want this for everyone.  DG x

[honeybun]

I think it may be a bit of a pipe dream DG. My hubby is now officially retired or an old age pensioner as he keeps saying.....which drives me nuts as I am ten years younger.....anyway.

He always payed a lot of money into pension schemes but as he moved jobs a lot we have pensions from all over the place.
We did plan and we are not too badly off. We really don't want to down size any more than we have....went from a Victorian barn of a place to a three bed bungalow. My son wants us to consider equity release if we think we are short....not keen.....I do know a few people who have done this and it doesn't seem particularly sensible to me.
Our "investment " in mothers house was for our retirement. It was a calculated risk that house prices would go up....and relatively speaking they have.
Not sure what mother expects though as she told me the other day we would have to pay for full time private care...in her own home....care for her.
Don't think....well I know my hubby won't even consider that at all.

Bramble...I do hope you are right. Might give the solicitor a call and see what he says.


Honeyb
X

[CLKD]

So much dental care is seen as 'cosmetic' under the NHS 

[honeybun]

Totally out of order CLKD.

My son is really pleased he has private medical care through his firm. He could have another family member included on his policy, as he is single he put his sisters name on for private cover......that's them sorted then   


Honeyb
X

[CLKD]

  …………… 

[honeybun]

Eh ?


Honeyb
X