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[jacquiellen]

Hi,
Just at a low point at the moment and wondered if anyone can offer advice or personal experiences as I feel I have been on this roller coaster 'menopause' ride for so long now and finally lost for ideas for things to help relieve the bad effects that go with menopause mainly hot flushes for me and not sleeping either due to hot flushes or anxiety.
At the moment I am trying to come off Evorel conti patches and I am halving them even though the pharmacist told me not to, because when having the 50g finally after around 4 weeks the flushes improve but I am so tired all the time and feel heavy and weary, can't get throught the day without a sleep and I don't work.
I have tried all the herbal remedies, black cohosh, primrose oil, starlfower 1000g, sage, menolieve, menopace, menopace plus, xf mung bean (which cost a fortune online) various low dose hrt pills; femaston low dose, premique low dose. This september will be 3 years since last period and I didn't have any periods for 14 mths prior as I had merina coil.  Can anyone give recommendations of things that work for them as I am just lost for ideas now and just feeling more depressed by the day and lonely, my doctors don't seem to have a clue and arn't really very interested, I generally go along after looking online and ask them for what I want.
 

[Joyce]

Daft question maybe, but why are you trying to come off Evorel? Sounds like you need more not less. Can you ask for Meno clinic referral?

[Dancinggirl]

Hi Sohot
I agree with cubagirl - why are you coming off HRT? How old are you?
If you have been feeling good on these patches then why not continue?
If you had a Mirena before, why not have another fitted and just use patches or gel for the oestrogen. The Mirena lasts for 4 years in post meno and you wouldn't get any bleeding/spotting after the first few weeks. If you are still in your 50s then this could be a really good way to go. Then when you come near to the end of the 4 year timescale you could very gradually reduce the amount of oestrogen you use in the hope the symptoms are not so bad.
I tried all the herbs etc and none worked for me - waste of money.
DG x

[CLKD]

If herbal remedies worked they would be available on the NHS  - did you get any relief from the HRT?  Have a read of the menus, left of screen and there is the availability to e-mail Dr Currie for advice.  Do you find your GP supportive.

[jacquiellen]

Thanks for all your replies, CLKD, no I don't really find my doc helpful, there are several doctors at my practice and I've seen most of them and the younger ones don't seem to know much at all about menopause or the symptoms, one young female doctor told me to put the patch on my arm, which as we know is not where it goes  I do feel that the evorel patches improved the flushes and anxiety but I do wonder if this is just because I am so physically tired whilst on them, it's like a real fatigue and this makes me feel depressed because I don't feel like doing anything so tired and bloated feeling! I don't mind taking HRT with all the health risks if I feel much much better then as many on this site say its quality of life but I have yet to find HRT that makes me feel great like some people say they feel. I must say another factor is I find patches a bit annoying as far as change days and places to put them etc. then the grey squares all over the body  CLKD, Dancinggirl, and cubagirl how are you coping? Do you take HRT? Do you think the fatigue would improve? I feel like I go round in circles after a while !

[Joyce]

I'm currently reducing my dosage, my choice as I'm fast approaching the dreaded 60 which seems to be cut off point.

Having come off it completely for 8 months a few years ago, I can sympathise with the lack of sleep etc. It's like permanent jetlag.  GP said it wasn't worth feeling so rough & put me back on it. I know of the possible health risks. Yeah the grey squares can be a tad annoying, but they're not on show to the world. I've given up trying to remove them, though baby oil helps.

I still have spells when sleep passes me by, but fortunately I don't work, so I just muddle along.

[jacquiellen]

Cubagirl, I have that jetlag thing when I'm on the patches. Do you feel ok on the patches and have the jetlag thing when off them? Do you feel good on the patches? I am 50 but think my menopause is early cos I have not had period for three years this september but I had an ovary removed when I was 36 so maybe that's why. Used to have heavy periods so thought things would be better now bleeding has stopped but now this anxiety and flushes. Are you cutting your patches in half now?

[littleminnie]

Hi Sohot.  I was tired before the patches (but couldn't sleep).  Now I'm on the patches I sleep but I'm still tired. Not all the time, but I go through periods when I can be tired every day for a week then be okay for a week. That's how it seems to go.

[jacquiellen]

littleminnie that's the same as me. I sleep sleep sleep on the patches but still feel tired next day so do you think it will improve how long have you been on them? are you on the same ones as me ?

[CLKD]

Have you had your thyroid function tested recently?  That can cause intense tiredness.

I haven't taken HRT for many years ………. the other medication I take makes me tired …..

[jacquiellen]

CLKD which HRT did you used to take? Did you find it made you feel good? Did you find it hard to come off? Do you still get hot flushes etc. now?

[CLKD]

I had HRT for reasons outside of menopause, it was too many years: (1980s) to be able to remember what I was prescribed and fortunately, apart from during peri-menopause, I didn't have hot flushes.  I suffered with hot neck, back, shoulders after my bath each evening for several years as well as intense itchiness across the back; but as I take medication regularly for other conditions, never knew if it was those.  But as it stopped and I'm still taking the meds., I concluded that it was hormonal. 

I had no problems stopping it.  The only meds I've had to wean off were anti-depressants …….

[Hurdity]

Hi sohot

Several things occur to me

First - as you are only 50 as others have said it could be that the dose is too low to get rid of the tiredness.

Secondly - it could be that you are reacting to the progestogen in Evorel - which is norethisterone. The British Menopause Society recognise that artifical progestogens - especially when given continuously as they are with conti HRT can give rise to constant low-grade progestogenic side effects. I've never expereinced jet-lag but I get hang-over type feelings, cotton wool head - feels like it might explode, sometimes migraine - when on the progesterone (sometimes!).

I would suggest you do as Dancinggirl recommends - if the Mirena suited you then definitely go back to it. and gel would get over the problem with patches and you would be able to adjust the dose easily.

Re patches - I use Estradot - oestrogen only patches - they are tiny so hardly any problem with grey squares. I put them on the bum cheeks, but the grey squares are small and easily confined to within my knicker area (if you don't wear thongs that is  ).

The other alternative is to return to a cycle so that you only take progesterone for part of the time - for progesterone intolerant women a long cycle is better - or short course of (Micronised) progesterone - but this should only be done under the supervision of gynae because there is a greater chance of thickened lining.

If your doctors aren't helpful and don't know much about menopause/HRT the only alternative is to ask for a referral to a menopause clinic if there is one near you, or else read up so much about it that you can just ask them for what you want!

I definitely would not be reducing oestrogen at you young age! You are still younger than the natural avergae age of menopause.

Finally declining testosterone can cause fatigue but I would only investigate this option (not generally available on NHS) after trying all the other ideas - including thyroid testing as CLKD suggested.

Hope this helps

Hurdity x

[jacquiellen]

Thanks Huridy, I really appreciate all the info.
I do think it could be the progesterone causing my problems because I was tired alot when I had the Merina coil also but needed that as I was still having heavy periods and needed to stop the bleeding after becoming aneamic a couple of times. You have given me a few idea there and yes I do research online all the time and it was me that suggested Evorel patches as I thought it would be preferrable to have the hormones absorbed through the skin rather than going through the liver etc. At the moment I seem to be a little more content on the half patch so I will continue with that for now and as I am coming to the end of my pack will go back to doctor hopefully by that time will have considered all options and be able to make a decision if and what to try next.
It's great to be able to come onto this site and find out so much information and to know that there are others out there the same as me! Sometimes I feel like I am the only one, people don't talk about it enough.

[CLKD]

You are not alone <wave>

I asked for testosterone many years ago on the NHS and my GP told me that my voice would deepen  so DH and I had to find other ways