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[Sarah2]

There appears to be 1 x 12-week study done in Canada on a very small group of women, looking at the effects of progesterone on blood clots.

Be interested to see links to any other research.

[Rowan]

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2014/01/140115172832.htm

[Sarah2]

yes- that's it

There 's a lot of what would be considered doubtful or outdated information there - such as the idea that fall in breast cancer cases relates to lower uptake of HRT- this has been disputed by the recent reviews which gave other more plausible reasons which showed it was not a true correlation- the main point of which was that women in the WHI study may well have already had breast cancer ( undiagnosed) before they took HRT and although it may have 'fed it', it hadn't caused it.

There is nothing in that study which shows scientifically that progesterone relieves symptoms. It was a study to monitor the effect on blood vessels and was 12 weeks' long. If they applied the same timescale to oestrogen then they'd probably come up with the same results.

[Suzyq]

Well done! You know how to link things - I can't figure it out!

As I see it, different approaches work for different people! We all agree there is no single way with hrt that works for everyone. My cream supplies 120mg of progesterone every day, split into two doses of 1ml. Blood tests show that I am absorbing this at least as well as I was doing with vaginal use of ultrogestan as my levels have increased. I used progesterone only (again the cream) for a long time and it relieved my symptoms. I agree it may not be useful if you have va etc, but in terms of palpitations, anxiety and flushes, it did work. If I don't use everyday my symptoms are bad even with estrogen and I got worse the higher my estrogen went! Others don't get on with progesterone - I understand that - but I, and others, do.  Over time you find out what works best for you and I think that's the most sensible approach for all of us.

Good discussion though - it's always good to explore different options.

[Suzyq]

http://www.medpagetoday.com/Endocrinology/GeneralEndocrinology/43123

Another positive for progesterone??

In reading the article linked by solver lady it refers to an earlier study by the same author which showed that progesterone significantly reduced the intensity and frequency of night sweats and hot flashes ....

[Cassie]

Do you get a monthly withdrawal bleed on this Suzy or are you using in continuously? Sorry if I didnt read the whole post..

[Suzyq]

I was originally using for only 12 days and got a monthly bleed but didn't feel great! My specialist switched me to continuous use as he felt, for me, the rise then fall in progesterone levels was making me feel poorly and that I would do better with steady levels? I was a bit sceptical but it's been nearly 4 weeks and I feel pretty good! As I use every day I should not get a monthly bleed but have been having spotting, which it am hoping will stop!!

[Rowan]

More about progesterone

http://www.synapse-trial.com/why-progesterone/

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/06/19/health/study-tests-if-progesterone-can-save-lives-after-brain-injury.html?_r=0

http://news.emory.edu/stories/2013/04/hspub_healing_hormone/campus.html

Dr John Lee was right he always maintained progesterone a multiple hormone helped you think better.

[Rowan]

Not sure how it could be outdated

Date:

January 15, 2014


Source:

University of British Columbia


Summary:


Treatment with progesterone, a naturally occurring hormone that has been shown to alleviate severe hot flashes and night sweats in post-menopausal women, poses little or no cardiovascular risk, according to a new study.

[Hurdity]

Just to clarify re the confusion (if any!):

The study you are referring to silverlady was not designed to demonstrate the efficacy of progesterone in relieving hot flushes, but looking at its cardiovascular effect. The study was based on the premise that progesterone does do this ( ie alleviate flushes etc) as Sarah2 mentioned.

I've looked at the article and have found another study to which the 2014 one refers, which is one (from 2012) that seems to demonstrate the efficacy of the hormone in this regard:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22453200

However a study like this cannot be taken in isolation because the effects are subjective (even though it was a placebo controlled trial) so much larger sample sizes (ie numbers of women) are needed. This is why studies on this are conflicting. Also if you notice the women were given 300mg of oral progesterone which is a huge amount - considering some women get side effects from the licensed dose of 200 mg!

Personally to be effective (ie the results), I feel there needs to be a very large placebo controlled study - with women given a placebo, progesterone only, and oestrogen and progesterone only - and separate study for women who have had hysterectomies so that oestrogen only can be compared!!! This is unlikely to happen for sure.

Having said that - many of us are not in the HRT game purely for symptom control - although that's how we started out - but for the long-term health benefits that oestrogen replacement gives (or rather to alleviate the adverse effects of prolonged oestrogen deprivation).

Hurdity x

[Rowan]

Surely what is important here is what works for each of us and not have to prove it all the time. If progesterone cream regimes works for some  or anything else for that matter why can it not be accepted without all the controversy no wonder some members don't want to post about their success with progesterone.

The mantra on MM is always that we are all different and what works for one may not work for another we should not have to back it up constantly with science, it gets tedious.

Suzyq

 I am really glad you have found something that works for you and you have posted about it.

[Taz2]

Does this mean that my oestrogen is unnecessary and I should only use progesterone (which is the part that makes me feel horrible but I know that it is the combined HRT which has more risks).

Taz x

[Sarah2]

It's not the study that is outdated- I didn't say that. It's the information right at the end of the link which refers to the negative aspects of combined HRT and oestrogen especially. I thought everyone had moved on from that now as those stats had been re-evaluated and- for example- there has been  a review which shows that the fall in breast cancer has nothing to do with reduction in HRT use.

The other point is that progesterone has not been linked to cardiovascular issues, which is what the study was investigating. The latest research shows a possible link between synthetic progestogens and breast cancer in combined therapy.
Re. oestrogen long term for osteoporosis this is incorrect too- certainly in the UK- because it is still used long term for women who cannot tolerate other treatments for osteoporosis.


The demise of estrogen: Though doctors still prescribe short-term estrogen for women with severe night sweats and hot flashes, it's not considered safe as a long-term prevention against osteoporosis or any other conditions of aging. Since estrogen use began to decline, breast cancer rates have started to fall; health statisticians believe the two trends are linked.



I'm sorry if this was not clear in my first post when I referred to out of date information.

[Rowan]

I have a box of progesterone cream, in comes in small sachets, 48 of them, I cut a  slit in one and  use the tiniest amount of the cream rubbed into a thin area of skin daily, the box lasts a very long time and is kept fresh because of the individual sachets.

I don't use it for symptoms personally, both men and women need progesterone for health.

http://healthyjen.hubpages.com/hub/fight-estrogen-dominance

Sorry I am using a link to back up what I have just said, but anyone can google this.

It all depends on what your symptoms are, your expectations, or circumstances  (hyst or not) what works for you. P

I use both hormones very sparingly, and  leaning toward estriol and natural progesterone cream.

The main point I am trying to put over is that any woman who posts with something that she finds works for her should be encouraged and not be made to feel that that just because it not viewed as mainstream it is not valid.

Taz after you have had your hyst you will be able to use the estrogen of your choice with or without progesterone.

Its about choices and what will work for you and make you feel well!

[SilverFairy]

All I can say is, that when I took the other HRT regimes, and then the Utrogestan and Estrodot (the latter chosen because they are both bio identical) my hot flushes and night sweats went within days but after 3 months I began to get really bad headaches daily.
As soon as I stopped this time my flushes etc came back within days and headaches went after 13 days - exactly the same with all of them. I have put on weight all through my different HRT's yet diet and daily activity stayed the same.

Since dropping the Estrodot, April 20th (I also keep a symptom diary for Graves and Meno, as symptoms arte very similar, and I started both at the same time - maybe there's a clue there!) I have had no flushes only a slight heat intolerance but that is definately a Graves symptom which means I am now less hypo. I have no headaches although they may appear after a couple more months. I have lost a kilo but until I lose another I wont put it down to the Prog only regime.
One thing I did notice (although it may have been a one off) I took the Utrogestan orally last night and slept better, so maybe I am not after all absorbing enough dermally? I may alternate, I'm so rock and roll sometimes!!   

I have a very open mind and I do research things now, especially since being diagnosed with Graves disease.
I do not expect anyone to blindly follow what I am doing. Everyone needs to research as much as possible, but take most you read with a pinch of salt!

I'm afraid I do not agree, though, with the opinion that if prog only HRT was any good we would be prescribed it. If you have any disease or disorder like Graves, that doctors and even specialists really know so little about and treat so illogically you would know why I say that!

Also I have taken out of the equation any benefits(?) that oestrogen may have. Even that, personally, I dont think has been researched properly.

This is the link to the website. The difference with this one is that the lady not only sells the product, she answers questions, in my opinion knowledgeably, on all aspects of progesterone.

http://www.progesteronetherapy.com/menopause.html#axzz2zMYTj2YH

If you look on the top left and click on 'forums' you will get to a list of questions on different subjects (not quite a forum like this)

I will keep you posted   

PS I am about 3 years in to meno and still have all my bits, although obviously redundant now!