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[Nairn]

Thanks Hurdity that is very helpful.  Do you think doing it that way I would still need to have an empty tummy and might it help with the water retention? The empty tummy thing is a pest as somenights to wait 3 hours after eating means it's very late before I can get to bed!  Also is it still OK to use vagifem at the same time - I usually do both the Utrogestan and Vagifem at bedtime.

Thanks xx

[Sammiejane]

hi ladies

i've took some time out from here recently but thought i'd give an update and once again ask for any advice u can give me.

so for those of you who don't know i've suffered terrible hair loss since starting estrogel 2 pumps no progesterone as hysterectomy and ovary removal !
menopause were under the impression it was low estrogen causing hairloss but i disagreed as i had my operation at 35 and  had no hairloss for 4 years up intill starting estrogel ! also i'm still shedding hair and my recent estrogen blood level revealed 368pmol and testosterone 0.7 pmol !
i've been under dermatology who believe the medication has triggered telegen effluvium and the only way to know for sure is to stop it ! but this means 4 months without . i did ask if i changed to a patch would this help she said no because they are all estradiol ? is this right ? also do u ladies think testosterone could possibly help with hairloss together will the lack of libido energy zero and fatigue thick head and headaches ?
i have incorporated progesterone utrogestan and was taking every other day but the night i didn't take it the next day my headaches were severe so have been taking every day 100mg although not needed but to try and balance estrogen improve hairloss weight gain etc
day 3 and this morning woke up very angry and irritable and my chest felt heavy - is this normal ?
i've also been using ovestin cream for VA twice a week but found the last few weeks of using it's started burning so tapered down to once a week and the dampness isn't so bad in knickers and burning slightly improved but the outer bits feel more sore - should i swap to vagifem ? or stop using and would systemic hrt be enough for va ?
do i try testosterone before stopping estrogen to see if hair improves ?

i feel very scared at the moment and a little disheartened because i started taking hrt as i thought would improve vaginal symtoms and at the time this was all i had and now the vaginal symtoms are still there i.e dampness i don't think it's urine as had test and no significant prolapse either , but i seem to be more tired less energy sex drive worse now have gained over a stone in weight and have hairloss ! so in some ways feel worse but it has improved mood slightly sleep and a vibration i was getting in vagina , i can't increase estrogen as makes me constipated and sweat more and already have bowel issues and gi issues !
i just don't know what to do part of me is exhausted with it all and thinks yes let's stop it see what happens and protect bones another way then i get scared and think but what if worse what if then i do more damage or prolapse or something ! then i think we'll maybe try testosterone this could be what your missing but then worry kicks in and i think what if hairloss gets worse !
i know i've repeated this and lots of you ladies have already offered advice but wanted to know your thoughts now my estrogen levels are where they should be as i've ruled at low estrogen as possible cause because still shedding 

[pants46]

Birdy, what should T levels be ?
Hurdity sent a link on another thread, but it's a different measurement.
Mine was 0.9pmol. But there was no reference range given.
I'm exhausted all the time, and everything hurts 

[Sammiejane]

hi birdy

thanks for the reply

do you think as my estrogen level is ok now to incorporate testosterone first to see if it makes the difference not just with hair but the energy libido fatigue etc weight gain ?

dermatology i won't see till march as they wanted me to stop the estrogen to know for sure if it was that causing hair loss as at the time i wasn't sure what my estrogen levels were ie still low and they said they don't think it low estrogen that's caused it because i have continued to shed so think it's the estrogen which has triggered hair shedding so they advised to stop it 4 months and if i continue to shed then they would know because of the hair cycle whether it was estrogen medication or low estrogen well as my estrogen is 368 pmol i know it not low estrogen which makes me wonder which i've wondered all along is hormone imbalance because i never had issues on combined pill but maybe my body dosent like estrogen on its own !
so do i add testosterone in ? i am using utrogestan only day 4 and have to say last night i had hot sweats terrible sleep and this morning wake up heavy chested , menopause said as i don't need progesterone as i have no uterus i could take every other day which i tried but the headaches on the day of not having progesterone were bad ! feel bloated a bit to and boobs heavy so not sure if i'll continue this but defo need testosterone i think ? if menopause won't do this then i will stop it !

[Julia Dizzy]

Hi Nairncat, I too am on 2 pumps gel and 100mg daily utrogestan and am into week 8 now.
I am still waiting to feel better but so far it ain't happening! Hot flushes have subsided but still having them in a morning when I get up some days (can't quite figure that out...?) I have constant stomach growling and bloating,( the pregnant look is not good for a 63 year old!) my bowels feel weird, pains in my groin above each side pubic bone and under right butt cheek to pubic bone, hip and back aches, body quiveryness, still anxious, body aches all over and tired. Don't know if all it is the HRT or if I have something else wrong with me!!
Am on vagifem as well so am thinking of using that in a morning every 3 days in future for the VA and trying the Utro vaginally each night until I go back to Meno clinic in a couple of weeks.
Have just got a new pump bottle called Estrodose manufactured by Besins in Belgium which looks the same as the Estrogel my gynae doctor first gave me?? I put the gel on the back of my arms in a morning but wonder should I do at night instead if I start my new regime? Any help with all this ladies? It would appear there are quite a few of us still struggling and waiting for the day when we feel better??

[Graciemouse]

HAIR SHEDDING question too!

Hi ladies. I'm on Oestrogel 1/2 pumps a day and 100mg Utro every night orally. I'm feeling relatively good on the whole..flushes totally stopped and sleeping soooo much better.

I do have slightly swollen boobs that hurt a bit and my nipples are a bit sensitive too. My main question is my hair has started shedding again. Deffo more in the brush each morning and on the pillow.

My question is...is it the Utro or the gel thats causing the hair loss?...  and which one is it thats causing the boobs issue?

Thanks x

[Tracey E]

HAIR SHEDDING question too!

Hi ladies. I'm on Oestrogel 1/2 pumps a day and 100mg Utro every night orally. I'm feeling relatively good on the whole..flushes totally stopped and sleeping soooo much better.

I do have slightly swollen boobs that hurt a bit and my nipples are a bit sensitive too. My main question is my hair has started shedding again. Deffo more in the brush each morning and on the pillow.

My question is...is it the Utro or the gel thats causing the hair loss?...  and which one is it thats causing the boobs issue?

Thanks x

Estrogel caused my hair loss Gracie .

[Hurdity]

Thanks Hurdity that is very helpful.  Do you think doing it that way I would still need to have an empty tummy and might it help with the water retention? The empty tummy thing is a pest as somenights to wait 3 hours after eating means it's very late before I can get to bed!  Also is it still OK to use vagifem at the same time - I usually do both the Utrogestan and Vagifem at bedtime.

Thanks xx

Hi Nairncat

No if you are taking it vaginally you do not need to take it on an empty stomach. Also the empty stomach thing - it doesn't do any harm to take it with food - it just increases bio-availability so can actually potentially make the oral mode of delivery MORE not less effective, I would say. However if sometimes taken on full, sometimes on empty stomach then the amount in bloodstream will vary and therefore this could lead to breakthrough bleeding or spotting maybe?

Really don't worry about the getting to bed thing - just take it when you need to go to bed. It's not good to eat just before you go to bed anyway!

Hurdity x

[Tracey E]

Yes but oestrogel doesn't Cause hair loss in many cases. I don't think i've Seen any other posters on here claiming that it has. Oestrogen is definitely good for hair growth and usually low e causes thinning hair.
Gracie have you ever had your thyroid fully checked out?

Yes it does Birdy, the menopause specialist told me so.  And it can also cause gastric problems affecting gall bladder, bloating and acid reflux etc. It's all mentioned in various clinical trials readily available on the internet. Since coming off Estrogel my hair loss has stopped.

[Tracey E]

My estrogen couldn't be any lower I'm not taking any HRT at the moment..

[Alicess]

Traci E, I do believe Estrogel caused your hairloss but your specialist describes symptoms that are also related to low estrogen as I have experienced myself. If it's noted in the leaflet or in research as a side-effect it is still not Estrogel (or estrogen for that matter) on its one but an imbalance with other hormones or the dosage could be to low or an absorption problem. The average leaflet of any birth control pill describes all the symptoms mentioned above and more.
Sometimes starting or switching HRT can also cause hairloss temporarily and it will stop once everything has settled. Like the sore boobs many women mentioned. Low iron/ low ferittine is something worth checking, even if you don't have anemia according to blood tests ferritine could already be low.

[Sammiejane]

traci and alicess

i take estrogel and have been shedding hair since starting it and still am now lost 50 percent and dermatology want me to stop it cause they believe it's triggered my hair to shed in telegen effluvium it's not that my estrogen is low as it 368 pmol and infect shedding is worse the higher the estrogen level , so i agree with you there traci estrogel causes hair loss my testosterone is low at 0.7 so either i'm still shedding due to that but i've had ovaries removed and testosterone was low anyway together with estrogen but i never took hrt for 4 years and my hair was mega thick and grew quick when i started the gel 11 months ago it's been shedding ever since and to be honest estrogen does cause hair loss it's the same as when women are pregnant they can loose hair and some loose after the baby it change in hormones levels or medication itself

[Tracey E]

Traci, I am not denying your experience but your reaction to oestrogel isn't common, is my point. I'm concerned that telling Gracie that oestrogel causes your hair to shed is going to frighten her into giving up oestrogel when it is much more likely to be a thyroid issue or hormone imbalance.

Birdy, my experience of Estrodrial is more common than you think. Many women can't tolerate HRT and have to come off it every day. I'm not trying to frighten anyone but your complete denial to any side effects to Estrodrial isn't going to help either.

We are not doctors on this forum an as I said before telling folk to 'up doses' when they may be intolerant to a product potentially could be very dangerous.

Always consult your menopause specialist or doctor when experiencing side effects from HRT.

[Tracey E]

Traci E, I do believe Estrogel caused your hairloss but your specialist describes symptoms that are also related to low estrogen as I have experienced myself. If it's noted in the leaflet or in research as a side-effect it is still not Estrogel (or estrogen for that matter) on its one but an imbalance with other hormones or the dosage could be to low or an absorption problem. The average leaflet of any birth control pill describes all the symptoms mentioned above and more.
Sometimes starting or switching HRT can also cause hairloss temporarily and it will stop once everything has settled. Like the sore boobs many women mentioned. Low iron/ low ferittine is something worth checking, even if you don't have anemia according to blood tests ferritine could already be low.

My iron levels were fine as was my thyroid function. Estrogen levels were good alas all the side effects were horrendous. My side effects never settled no matter how long I was on it.

I have a very good specialist which is very knowledgeable on the menopause and the side effects of HRT, I consider myself very lucky.

I have decided that some folk on this forum shut their ears to my experiences and don't take to kindly to my sharing, so I've decided to stop posting on here.

I wish you all good luck with your endeavours for the future. X

[Hurdity]

Hi Tracey E - sorry to see you have decided to leave the forum. The others are not trying to deny your experiences at all and in fact both Alicess and Birdy said so! However what they expressed concern about is for it to be thought to be a common side efect so as to put other women off using it, when one of the most common reasons for thinning hair is menopause and low oestrogen, with many women experiencing improvement on raising their oestrogen levels. Hair loss seems to be a very complex issue and hormonal (and other) shock - ie sudden changes it seems may also have this effect, and also trying to get the product and balance right when replacing oestrogen is the key factor - so it could be that oestrogen in the form of estradiol is causing some other metabolic change leading to hair loss in your case. Again as has been said the balance between testosterone and oestrogen has a part to play, and the type of progestogen can also affect our hair.

For you Tracey E, it may be too early on the menopause journey for HRT and the type you have tried has not suited you?

I wish you well and hope you manage to sort out your problems especially with your hair, and also do reconsider HRT in the future if your menopausal symptoms become such that they seriously affect your quality of life. Hopefully if you do, you will be able to work with your very good specialist to find a product and dose that is right for you.

Take care.

Hurdity x