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[kayellvee]

Thanks Tracey, that's useful to know.

[Nannyneet]

If taking utrogestan vaginally im supposing it doesn't matter if you've got an empty stomach or not

[Nannyneet]

No 😀

Yay,I think I might try it then because taking it orally is messing with my snacking 😂

[kayellvee]

Ugh.  Took the utro orally just to see but woke at 3 again with worse anxiety/anxious dreams and a horrible burning feeling all over.  I'll try vaginally tonight but I'm actually wondering if the gel is doing enough. 

When I was (briefly) on the patches, by the 2nd week I was starting to sleep around 5 hours a night, give or take and the nausea settled down but I had to stop the patches.  When I started the gel 3-4 days later, I put the first application on at around 4.30pm, as I had to wait for the pharmacy to get it in.  I then slept until 6am, no nausea (yay!) and put more gel on at around 8am.  Started to feel significantly better in myself by mid-afternoon but had a dip later on the evening.  Went to bed OK but woke at 3, with nausea again and had a lot of anxiety yesterday.  Took the utro last night, again got off OK but again woke at 3 with bad anxiety.

I'm on 2 pumps of gel - doc said I could increase to 4 after a month. I think I'm going to add an extra 3rd pump in the evening now, to see if it helps my sleep and the anxiety.  Any advice?  Is this a bad idea?

[Hurdity]

kayellvee - have been away but just seen your post (and Birdy's excellent response!). I made a detailed post about the studies that investigated the use of vaginal progesterone in protecting the womb when used as part of HRT. I've bumped the post for you (and others who might find it useful!). This is the thread: https://www.menopausematters.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,43633.0.html  You might like to print it off to give to the GP who says it doesn't offer enough protection! On what does she base that statement?!!!

Having weird dreams is a common side effect of utrogestan even when taken vaginally, although you should experience fewer side effects generally taken this way as has been said. I still feel sedated from vaginal use because actually more progesterone is abosrbed systemically, but because the metabolic breakdown pathway is different ( in terms of the amount of by-products from the liver) there should be fewer of some of the nastier side effects that some women experience.

Sorry I can't advise on the gel and too busy to look in depth right now but just wanted to update re the utro! Hope you feel better soon....

Hurdity x

[Callisto]

Dear all,
Thought I would ask your advice as I am panicking and getting very depressed and ragged. I have now been on the Estrogel 2 pumps, utrogestan 200mg (for 12 days/month), testosterone  for around three years plus Ovestin twice a week. ( I am 51 years old and started the regime at 47 when I was still getting a few periods not had any bleed for over a year even on the HRT ) HRT has dampened down any sign of flushes, made sleeping a thing that was possible (even though I was still pretty bad for waking up) and also made my anxiety a bit less extreme.
It has served me well so far except, I have realised to my dawning horror that for the last three months  I have been increasingly insomniac to the point that I hardly get three hours sleep, even when I take a bit of a sleeping pill I still can hardly sleep. I am having bad panic attacks (partially due to extremely trying personal circumstances in terms of my marriage). I am waking up hot in the night again, I thought it was just the summer but actually I think it is hot flushes .I also am feeling slight twinges in my belly where I think my ovaries are, not painful just a bit twisty if you know what I mean.?!😶 I feel like I can hardly go on I'm so tired, also I feel hardly like a female any more. I can't achieve much of an O despite the testosterone though no problems with dryness.
My question to you is do you think it is a good idea to up my dose from two pumps to perhaps 2 1/2 pumps a night of oestrogel or will I just have to keep increasing it and increasing it on and on till nothing works anymore (if it's possible to get resistant to it which I doubt)
 I don't know if it would be worth getting a scan and/or blood tests to check my hormone levels? I know that this is an inexact science and perhaps yield no useful results. I just can't stand not sleeping and feel so terrible, can hardly see how I can keep my job going at this rate. Any suggestions would be gratefully received. On way to Doctor to get diazepam, and sleeping pills but thinking more oestrogen in my system could be the answer. Thank you for any help you can give. Perhaps some of you are on more than two pumps a night? I hope it doesn't alter how long you're allowed to stay on HRT how many pumps you have. I'm terrified of being taken off it.
🐾C

[Dotty]

Hi Callisto yes I would say you need more oestrogen.  It might be that your own reserves of oestrogen have fallen. X

[Tc]

Hiya ladies. Does anyone else get cystitis on utrogestan?
Along with migraine my cystitis attacks seem linked to the 12days I am on it 
Xx

[Callisto]

Thank you Dotty,  It makes me  relieved to hear what someone else thinks. Wondering how many pumps to try. 2.5 or three.  I suppose I need to ask my doctor to see what she recommends.
🐾C

[Dotty]

Callisto...go up to 2.5 and increase to 3 if it's not helping. I started on 2, then 3, then3.5 and then 4. I've stuck with 4 x

[Nannyneet]

Hi,I apply my gel to my inner thigh,do you spread it out or just put it on a small area and do you rub it in or just smear it on and leave to dry

[Callisto]

Thanks Dotty,
Do you split your dose of gel between evening and morning?
( been reading peoples first posts and can't believe that I hadn't recognised that I have got many of the classic meno symptoms back again ..
Elkwarning wrote, 
'crushing anxiety, massive sense of self loathing / worthlessness and rage.  I alternate between really very capable and wanting to hide in a cave.' That is exactly how I feel again now and was how I felt three years ago when first on HRT.
Nannyneet, I smear it on and leave to dry not rub it in : )
🐾C

[Nannyneet]

Thanks Dotty,
Do you split your dose of gel between evening and morning?
( been reading peoples first posts and can't believe that I hadn't recognised that I have got many of the classic meno symptoms back again ..
someone wrote
'crushing anxiety, massive sense of self loathing / worthlessness and rage.  I alternate between really very capable and wanting to hide in a cave.' That is exactly how I feel again now and was how I felt three years ago when first on HRT.
Nannyneet, I smear it on and leave to dry not rub it in : )
🐾C

Thanks that's what I've been doing,the wondered if it should be rubbed in,I put one pump on each thigh but it spreads a really long way,not helped by being a short arse 😂

[kayellvee]

Really struggling with this...2nd lot of utro last night, vaginally this time.  Woke an hour earlier at 2am and haven't been able to get back to sleep.  Tried an extra half pump of Oestrogel last night thinking it might help sleep. Really stressed and anxious about the day and about how I feel.  The patches were much better for me, certainly regarding sleep and nausea, apart from the allergic reaction.

Also, I've been rubbing the gel in but seeing some posts, it looks like I'm doing it wrong.

[Dotty]

New advice from top menopause specialists is that you should rub the gel in until it's dry.

Callisto... I use all 4 pumps at once in morning on outer arms and shoulders. I find that's best for me. Advice is split on whether you should spilt the dose and where you should rub it. X