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[Sparkler]

Thanks Stellajane and Hurdity. I haven't had daytime problems with the Utrogestan, just some funny dreams and a return to previous symptoms of palpitations and hot flushes, although these are more like ‘hot waves' that stop before they get too bad. Chin hair is rampant, too, whereas it had eased up on the estrogen only part.

Last night was day 8 of 12 taking Utro. I took only 100 mg on the first night, then 200 every other night then will do 100 on the last day, too. Hoping this will be a little more gradual. Waiting to see how I am when I come off the progesterone as I always had pretty bad pms (angry, crying, greasy skin and hair, acne, water retention). I am supposed to be going wedding dress shopping with my daughter next week (for her not me) and don't want to be a wreck for her sake.

Thank you for your insight on the feeling dizzy, I think if it happened in the day I would have to stop the utro as I wasn't safe walking about the house, let alone driving to work.

Xx

[Springtime]

Hello lovely ladies!

I'm so glad I've found this forum!

Could anybody help with either of these two questions?

The first one is whether anybody else has experienced a bad burning sensation after applying Tostran at the same site as Estrogel?

And the second is about safety issues of cycling Utro vs cont use, and whether cycling would help with sore boobs.

I am postmeno, 58 yrs
Use hrt to improve sleep, hot flushes, libido and to help with osteoporosis.
Also have arthritis and I am hypothyroid (50 mg levothyroxine)
Use    1 pump Estrogel (originally prescribed 2-4 but boobs too painful)
100 mg Utro
2x per week ½ pump Tostran

After two years of taking privately prescribed bioidentical hrt (lozenges with est/prog/test) I switched to a NHS menopause clinic in November 18. Initially, I started off with estrogel in the morning and Utro in the evening, and after a couple of weeks I added Tostran. I applied Estrogel and Tostran (1 pump each) one after the other on the same area (inner thighs). This caused some sort of cross reaction with very unpleasant burning sensation and reddening of skin. A cold shower calmed things a little but the reddening took almost a week to subside and I stopped taking Tostran for about 6 weeks.
 
The menopause clinic recommended to apply the gels to two different areas, i.e. estrogel on the thighs and Tostran on the pubic area although the latter continued to cause some minor reddening. As an additional precaution, I am spacing the applications apart, i.e. applying Tostran 6 hours after Estrogel.

At my 2nd and last appt (Feb 19) the menopause doc mentioned to swap to an alternative testosterone product (‘sachets', presumably Testim?), but her letter to my GP listed again Tostran rather than the alternative testosterone.

Two weeks ago I asked my GP:

a) whether he could prescribe the alternative testosterone product in sachets as discussed in the specialist's consultation, and
b) whether he'd be happy for me to try and take Utro on day 1-25 during a 28 cycle  (as per manufacturer's advice) rather than continuously, as I could feel my ovaries and had sore boobs.

He declined and said he would only be able to follow the specialist's advice. He seemed to think that my pres of utro and Tostran was ‘unlicensed' and suggested I should contact the menopause clinic myself to clarify the situation.

I emailed the menopause clinic but they simply stated in their letter that, according to their records, my symptoms had improved and I'd been discharged.

Right now I'm not sure what to do…

My GP wasn't inclined to refer me back to the specialist and equally, wasn't happy to tweak the pres. He reminded me that HRT was an incredibly delicately balanced matter and playing around with it could have huge consequences.

I should add that overall, my HRT is a godsend (I can sleep again, hot flashes are gone, it's helped my bone density and it didn't negatively affect my mood), but I am still keen to try a different product of testosterone. I am also bothered by feeling my ovaries and having painful boobs and was hoping that cycling Utro would be worth trying out. During both visits at the menopause clinic I asked whether I could cycle my Utro as per manufacturer's recommendations, but was told it was ‘safer not to'.

So, all in all, I am worried about getting this wrong. After all, safety is my nr 1 concern.

Apologies about the long post, but any suggestions would be really appreciated!

[Hurdity]

Hi Springtime

 

Firstly please don't apologise - the more info we have the better we can help you!

Re your Qs. Intuitively I would never apply any different gel to the same area of skin at the same time! The advice is always to rotate them. I don't think you need to worry about applying them at the same time of day though - just not at the same site or near eg suggest you use alternate legs for T and Oe gel. You reaction from applying in same place could be that the excipients ( what the active ingredient is mixed with) are reacting with each other so defo a no-no to apply to same area of skin.

Re the T - this is really the subject of another thread but will answer here although the T Qs might get missed by the other T women! Yes Testogel sachets would be better in that they are less concentrated (1% T compared to 2 % in Tostran) and as we apply a very small amount anyway it is easier in the weaker one not to apply too much or too little (in the absence of a licensed formulation for women).

Btw I would never apply to pubic area!!! Most of us apply far from abdomen because of migration through the skin. OK you won't get the additional side effect of hair growth but personally I would rather deal with a bit of extra hair than potentially unwelcome side effects in pubic/genital area. So I apply to insdie of lower thihg ie inside of knee. Some apply to ankles or feet. The discontinued Intrinsa patches were applied to butt cheek but for me that's too close to  pubic area for extra T!

Yes doc is right that T is unlicensed but the utro is licensed - for oral use anyway (not vaginally in UK for HRT but for fertilty it is and also vaginally for HRT on the continent. In fact the prescribing info as you say, gives days 1-25 as the dose for continuous combined use so you are fine to use it this way without medical authorisation if you would prefer. It's not strictly cyclical as only 3 days off. A true cycle would really be 21 days or less I would suggest - and mostly 10-14 days per 28 of prog. Some of us prefer this because of the side efects of continuous prog. Incdientally not sure how you feel on the prog but some of the known effects ( sedative, libido depressing, lethargy inducing) work counter to the efects of T (energising, muscle strenghtening, libido enhancing and opposing. Taking cyclically may well help with boob pain - I always get this when on the prog phase of the cycle and used to when fertile too.

When you say feel your ovaries do you mean as in you can feel the organ or that you feel twinges? You should ask for this to be investigated and have a scan/CA125 test just to check all is well. Your ovaries should actually have all but disappeared even though you are taking HRT as with most post-menopausal woemn with healthy ovaries. Having said that i get twinges in mine sometimes quite sharp pain but have never mentioned it - but blood tests are always fine and last scan they couldn;t find them so I stopped worrying about the pain. But make sure you have it looked at at least once before then ignoring it if all OK!

Glad you're feeling better generally anyway

Have a look at alol the thread on tesosterone ( put T in the search box on the home page of the forum) . Also there is a long-running thread on T in Private Lives whichh might be of interest.

Hope this helps.

Hurdity x

[KatieLiz]

After taking Femoston 2mg/10mg for just over 5 years (occasionally during this time dropping back to 1mg/10mg) I decided to start using a conti regime.  I was going to start using Femoston Conti but my GP offered me the Estrogel gel 2 pumps daily and Utrogestan tabs 100mg 1-25/28.

I finished my Femoston pack and had the usual bleed but immediately started using the gel and tabs.  I was very surprised how lovely and relaxed I was feeling taking the Utrogestan. 

However 2 weeks in, I had the most horrendous headache, stayed in bed the whole day and then discovered I was having another period which lasted about 8 days.

I have carried on using the gel and tabs but stopped the Utrogestan on day 25 and now it's day 28 and I'm having another bleed.

I do want to try this regime for 3 months but just a bit concerned as to why I'm bleeding so much when this is supposed to be the no bleed option! 

I know there are a few ladies going back to the sequi option because of unscheduled bleeding but there must be a balance somewhere that stops the bleeding?  I wondered whether I should just use 1 pump of estrogel but I believe 2 pumps is still less than the 2mg in Femoston?

Any thoughts? 

Katie

[Dotty]

Hi Katie the bleeding may just be your body settling into the new hrt or you may not be post menopause, which could lead to bleeding. X

[KatieLiz]

Thanks Dotty - I'm 58 and although I started HRT when I was peri - I think I would be post now.

[Dotty]

Hi Katie Yes you are probably right. However, there are some ladies still getting periods in their late 50s. There is a thread on here somewhere about late menopause.

In that case it's probably just your body getting used to the new hrt. It can take 6 months for bleeding to settle. You can take the progesterone continuously . The guidance of having a break for 3 days has been updated and menopause specialists are now advising to take it every day . X

[Springtime]

Hi Springtime

 

Firstly please don't apologise - the more info we have the better we can help you!

Re your Qs. Intuitively I would never apply any different gel to the same area of skin at the same time! The advice is always to rotate them. I don't think you need to worry about applying them at the same time of day though - just not at the same site or near eg suggest you use alternate legs for T and Oe gel. You reaction from applying in same place could be that the excipients ( what the active ingredient is mixed with) are reacting with each other so defo a no-no to apply to same area of skin.

Re the T - this is really the subject of another thread but will answer here although the T Qs might get missed by the other T women! Yes Testogel sachets would be better in that they are less concentrated (1% T compared to 2 % in Tostran) and as we apply a very small amount anyway it is easier in the weaker one not to apply too much or too little (in the absence of a licensed formulation for women).

Btw I would never apply to pubic area!!! Most of us apply far from abdomen because of migration through the skin. OK you won't get the additional side effect of hair growth but personally I would rather deal with a bit of extra hair than potentially unwelcome side effects in pubic/genital area. So I apply to insdie of lower thihg ie inside of knee. Some apply to ankles or feet. The discontinued Intrinsa patches were applied to butt cheek but for me that's too close to  pubic area for extra T!

Yes doc is right that T is unlicensed but the utro is licensed - for oral use anyway (not vaginally in UK for HRT but for fertilty it is and also vaginally for HRT on the continent. In fact the prescribing info as you say, gives days 1-25 as the dose for continuous combined use so you are fine to use it this way without medical authorisation if you would prefer. It's not strictly cyclical as only 3 days off. A true cycle would really be 21 days or less I would suggest - and mostly 10-14 days per 28 of prog. Some of us prefer this because of the side efects of continuous prog. Incdientally not sure how you feel on the prog but some of the known effects ( sedative, libido depressing, lethargy inducing) work counter to the efects of T (energising, muscle strenghtening, libido enhancing and opposing. Taking cyclically may well help with boob pain - I always get this when on the prog phase of the cycle and used to when fertile too.

When you say feel your ovaries do you mean as in you can feel the organ or that you feel twinges? You should ask for this to be investigated and have a scan/CA125 test just to check all is well. Your ovaries should actually have all but disappeared even though you are taking HRT as with most post-menopausal woemn with healthy ovaries. Having said that i get twinges in mine sometimes quite sharp pain but have never mentioned it - but blood tests are always fine and last scan they couldn;t find them so I stopped worrying about the pain. But make sure you have it looked at at least once before then ignoring it if all OK!

Glad you're feeling better generally anyway

Have a look at alol the thread on tesosterone ( put T in the search box on the home page of the forum) . Also there is a long-running thread on T in Private Lives whichh might be of interest.

Hope this helps.

Hurdity x

Gosh Hurdity! I can't keep up with you! 

So touched you made time to immediately reply to my endlessly long rambling post – incidentally, that was the first time I've ever posted anything on a forum in my entire life. I do try and keep up! 

You are spot on that applying T and Oe gel to the same area of skin was a bad idea. And yet I only did as I was told. If only I had come across your posts earlier.

I'll try again to get a script for Testogel and hope I'll tolerate it better. After all, according to the leaflet of the menopause at Chelsea and Westminster Tostran is only third in line after Testim and Testogel. Also, I agree it makes sense not to apply T to pubic area (even though this is recommended in C&W leaflet) so will from now on stay away from the nether regions.

Will give the prog 25/28 regime a go. ‘Pain' in ovaries is more of a gentle, almost continuous pull, had a a CA 125 1.5 yrs ago and all was well and on last scan in Jan they were still around. Perhaps in a few years they'll have disappeared at which point I'll stop worrying too.

Will look at the threads you've recommended, huge thanks again for sharing your insights so generously.

I owe you!

x

[Elmsey]

Hello,

Could I have some help from those of you more experienced with eostrogel.

I am 57 and around 12 months post menopausal.  I was taking Femostan conti 1/5 but started getting poor moods and break through flushes as well as heart palpitations (the worst!).

I went to see a gynea who prescribed utrogestan/eostrogel and suggested 2-4 pumps trail and error.  Because I had been on 1/5 she said I should start at 3 pumps and experiment.

I have become very bloated - 2 inches on my waist at least and my boobs are very tender.  Does that indicate I should drop the dose?  I have been taking this for 8 days.

[Tracey E]

Hi Elmsey

I started this regime 25 days ago, with originally 1 pump of estrogel. Unfortunately my hot flushes returned so I've increased to 2 pumps. I do feel bloated at the moment and my breasts are tender too. Just hoping they settle with time.

You could try dropping the dose to 2 pumps just to see if you feel better. The positives of this regime are the lack of palpitations. They were horrendous before.

[Elmsey]

Please can someone confirm whether it is the same Utrogestan tablets which you take vaginally or orally.  Mine say to take on an empty stomach but I am quite intolerant to progetsterone so I am taking vaginally.   Clearly I want to make sure they will work like that!

Elmsey

[Jasmine_2015]

Yes they are the same and if taken vaginally there's no need to take on an empty stomach. Most of us take in the evening after using the toilet and before lying down to help them stay in place! Hope that helps

[Elmsey]

Thanks Jasmine.  That is what I have been doing.

I think that I will probalby give the Mirena coil a go but until I can get an appointment will need to stick with this regime.

Elmsey

[amy1235]

Hi all you lovely ladies. I posted on here some time back and I'm still on extradite 75 mg and utrogestan vaginally , 100mg for three days, then 200 mg for five days, then back to 100 mg for another three days- I do the utrogestan every eight weeks or so. My problem is that when I stop the utrogestan I get the most heavy cramps bleeds - bright red blood literally pouring out for the first two days and then still red blood but less heavy for another four or five days. I feel completely washed out and low on energy and mood also. I'm planning to go to my go to ask for an endometrial scan and breast scan also ( my mother had breastfeeding cancer). Any ideas or suggestions would be gratefully received.

[Hurdity]

The reason for your heavy bleeds is most likely because the womb lining has built up between your doses of utrogestan so indicates that an 8 week cycle (ie taking progesterone for 11 days in every two months) is not frequent enough. If your GP has sanctioned your long cycle then hopefully s/he will send you for a scan if you are concerned abou the heavy bleeding. The best time to be scanned is immediately following the heaviest part of your bleed as it begins to tail off and before it starts to build up again.

Hurdity x