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[R4CT0M]

I'm curious - how do you know where the inner and outer vag areas start/end?  I always insert the VF to the length of the applicator, assuming this is where it should go.  Would it not drop out if placed too low, more so if the whole vag/bladder area has sagged?

Hi Night owl

I'm like you, I've always put it in near enough full length... and wouldn't know how they measure third way etc.  I don't actually get to a point where I hit resistance as such.

the actual instructions say

Step 6: The applicator should be inserted (without forcing) as far as comfortably possible, or until half of the applicator is inside your vagina, whichever is less.

http://www.rxlist.com/vagifem-drug/medication-guide.htm

so for me it would be the half of applicator to be inserted then.. will try that next time

[Night_Owl]

Andius, thanks for useful info - how annoying that you developed the rash - wonder if it would happen now.  I do sympathise as I medication sensitive - and highly progesterone intolerant.  One thing I know for sure with this meno is that how the body reacts varies from, say, one six month period of time to the next.  Maybe worth a re-try.  When my VA was at its worst, alongside systemic HRT, Vagifem with a dab of Ovestin on the outer area, I used and sometimes still do - Carlson Vitamin E pessaries (very different to normal Vitamin E capsules) and vag probiotics (from Higher Nature) which I found to be soothing.  Taking a high dose fish oil and ground flax seeds daily also seem to help the VA and general skin dryness, as does only using aqueous cream to wash down below and baby soap for general washing.  A many pronged approach!

R4CTOM, thanks too for useful info - yesterday I tried the lower insert, half application length - strange this - don't know if it would have happened anyway, but my bladder urgency seemed to be worse than normal.  This is typical of my body, to totally over-react to any sort of change!  Will persist with it though and see how it goes.

Would be interesting to share experience of how we get on with the lower application.

[andius]

Night Owl:

Thanks for your comments...it really is a multipronged approach!!!!...and it takes a long time to figure out what works and what doesn't.

I love the Carlson's e suppositories...I keep them in the fridge.  I also take fish oil and was taking evening primrose also, but stopped the EPO and can't tell any difference, so now just the FO and Calcium Citrate and multivitamin and my B12 and vit D.  The last 2 deficiencies I was "honored" to receive with the onset of menopause , particularly the vit D which makes no sense since I am in the sun alot and it is hot here....we live 3 hours from Mexico! I tried the vag probiotics too several different times (doc recommended), but not that brand.  They gave me  typical cystitis.....LOL...they got confused about where they were supposed to live and even grew out on the urine sample.  Since then I only take them orally. Flax seeds I haven't tried....do you grind your own?, what do you eat them on?

I still get one of those lesions on my buttocks here and there, but nothing like a year ago when I had dozens. If the lower placement of vagifem doesn't help,....I may increase it again to 3x/wk and see what happens as I have plenty of them.  So far 2 doses down low and no burning episodes for me....yet.

Andius

[R4CT0M]

well I did halfway up applicator last night... I am in agony today     feels like a hot poker right up there at the top and going through to back passage   soz if tmi
don't know if it's just coincidence or what.. i'm very confused
might start a new thread

[Taz2]

When did you last have an examination R4CTOM? If your symptoms are changing maybe you should get them checked out?

Taz

[R4CT0M]

thanks Taz... I was examined by Gynae consultant end of May who diagnosed mild prolapse bladder.... saw physio who also examined me on 2 sep, confirmed a grade 1 cystocele.  Saw her again last night and asked her about womb etc, she said everything else ok, all in place when she examined me in sep, just this cystocele.  Told her that the first 2 weeks on vagifem were great but felt I may need more often, she suggested trying every other day.... now got this pain today, but I have had it like this before...  I originally thought all my pain was because of the cystocele, but now realise that it probably wasn't.  I hadn't put it together that it was prob to do with menopause but think it must be, although I am post meno.. As I say had this pain before and it does pass but not sure what it is, it is at entrance and feels like right at top too and goes through perineum to back.. wondering if nerve damage maybe?  anyway due to see gynae consultant on 6 dec so will mention it to him    mind you I did feel to see how the prolapse was this morning, and I have noticed that this bad pain often comes after I have done that, as if maybe just touching the tissues sets it off
not sure, wish it was straightforward and could tell what's what

[R4CT0M]

took a vagifem last night, so not due another until tomorrow night, but just used one to see if it helps   paracetamol does nothing for it

[R4CT0M]

well an hour after I took it pain had really reduced, just a bit of an ache left, so maybe I do need it more often for certain

[CLKD]

Late to this  - I insert as deeply as possible so that the pessary doesn't squirm it's way out again 

[R4CT0M]

thanks CKLD, I think that would be best for me really..... also I wonder if by inserting it lower down you are then not getting full benefit to all the area you need it

Mony xx

[Hurdity]

CLKD - I don't think you are on Vagifem - I thought you had Orthogynest - the waxy pessaries without an applicator? Apols if I'm wrong.

These are estriol and it's the effect of concentrated estradiol (in vagifem) that is being discussed.

I am excatly the same re the Orthgynest - they need to go up as high as possible - and definitely I can't put them in in the morning otherwise they would fall out!!

Vagifem are designed to immediately stick to the walls of the vagina and the estradiol gently diffuses out.

Hurdity x

[CLKD]

Yep Hurdity but my opinion was asked for earlier in the thread  ??  and maybe a certain amount of  Vagifem will leak out which may help symptoms all the way through the vaginal area  ??

[Hurdity]

The reason I said it was because you said this:

"Late to this  - I insert as deeply as possible so that the pessary doesn't squirm it's way out again  "

I wasn't implying in anyway whatsoever that you shouldn't comment!!!!! Just that the discussion was only about where Vagifem should be inserted - because of some propsective research into this.

I totally agree with your point about leaking out  - that's why I like the Orthogynest because it does ooze out much more than vagifem and I definitely feel the benefit the whole length of the vag.

Yes I agree also that is the reason that Vagifem should be inserted higher - it is designed to so that more oestradiol reaches more of the vaginal area - so I imagine anyway.

Hurdity x

[andius]

I just wanted to report that I used my vagifem last night and burned all day today!! I look red too! 

Last two doses half way in instead of deepest I could go.

A

[R4CT0M]

Hi Andius

yes me too Andius, put it in lower down on Tues evening, it took away most of the pain I had been having that day, but I was burning and itchy all around vulval area which was somewhat uncomfy all day   Put another in last night but high up and I feel much better this morning, much more comfortable.

I'm wondering about the effects of putting 2 in together instead of 1 more often but will start another thread about it

Mony xx