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Author Topic: Vagifem shortage?  (Read 35053 times)

Suzi Q

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Re: Vagifem shortage?
« Reply #30 on: March 20, 2013, 07:10:38 AM »

I KNIOW IM SHOUTING AND I KOW IVE SAID IT BEFORE BUT ITS ALL MONEY
WE BABY BOOMERS AND POSTBABY BOOMERS(ME) WE ARE A CASH COW FOR THEM
IF IT WAS DANG WHYVE THEY BEEN FLOGGING IT FOR OVER 10 YEARS
NOPE MONEY MONEY MONEY SORRY XXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
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Gig

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Re: Vagifem shortage?
« Reply #31 on: March 20, 2013, 07:59:12 AM »

Suzi- what is "DANG"?  I don't understand your post. Do you mean Doing Any Good???

It's clear why women have to use it all the time- just like you use moisturiser on your face or foot cream on your dry heels!  They work, but they don't make a permanent change happen!  Women's bodies are not suddenly going to start producing oestrogen in their 50 and 60s and older- so it has to be put back if you have VA. 
« Last Edit: March 20, 2013, 08:48:13 AM by Gig »
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Taz2

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Re: Vagifem shortage?
« Reply #32 on: March 20, 2013, 09:05:24 AM »

I think it's short for "dangerous" Gig.

Taz x
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Gig

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Re: Vagifem shortage?
« Reply #33 on: March 20, 2013, 09:06:47 AM »

Aaaaaaaaaaaah! Thanks.

Ignore comments then Suzi. Sorry.
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Hurdity

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Re: Vagifem shortage?
« Reply #34 on: March 20, 2013, 12:00:15 PM »

Suzi I'm not sure what you are saying?

All HRT involves products which cost money - and yes make money for drug companies - but if we want it then someone has to pay. Even if it is free to use on the NHS - the NHS pays the drug companies.

As far as I understand the drive for withdrawing the 25 mcg Vagifem was mainly due to the mantra - now outdated since the review of the WHI study (as I understand) - to use as low a dose as possible for the shortest possible time, and that this drive came from US - possibly from the FDA rather than the company.

The company is not saying use double the amount - it is saying that the lower amount is effective as shown by trials. However as I said below in my previous post the trials are not definitive and cannot possibly apply to all women.

Someone somewhere should be putting pressure on Novonordisk about this but I imagine the big Menopause Societies (such as the British, North American or International Menopause Societies) would be the only organisations with the remotest chance of being listened to.

From what I can see there also definitely needs to be more work done (long term trials) but sadly if they have withdrawn the 25 mcg are they going to conduct any more of these?

Hurdity x
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Suzi Q

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Re: Vagifem shortage?
« Reply #35 on: March 20, 2013, 12:22:28 PM »

Its my opinion and only mine and like everyone else Im entitled to it
They have been flogging Vagifem for over 10 years now and women havent been dropping like flys
The price has almost doubled for 175m less in a pkt
Women who used 25x2 to drop to not even the amount of 1x25m a week is a huge drop
They could have brought it down to 20 even 15 and maybe with time see whast happens
They ahd the 25 for 10 years if Vagifems not safe then we shouldnt be using it
Wonder if the ladies on HRT were told weve all decided now ladies that HRT pills are going to be cut back
Sorry ladies but you will have you will have to manage We will only make the lowest possible dosage of HRT in furture
Yes you may probably get the screaming abdabs back the flushes the headaches depression but its safer for you
Weve decided HRT pills are high risk so all  doses will be lowered by at least a 1/2 there would be an OUT CRY I bet
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Taz2

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Re: Vagifem shortage?
« Reply #36 on: March 20, 2013, 12:43:41 PM »

They think it is safe but there have been no long-term trials conducted as to how long it is safe to use it so maybe that is another reason why they have lowered the dose. When it was first produced the manufacturers did put a time limit on it's use and advised a break every so many months. Over time lots of women (me included) wanted to use it non-stop and, I think, due to pressure the company revised it's advice and said that it was suitable for continuous use. Maybe this caused them to rethink and the decision was made that for continuous use then the lowest dose should be used?  http://www.dslrf.org/mwh/content.asp?L2=1&L3=7&SID=130&CID=2061&PID=42&CATID=0

Taz x
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Gig

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Re: Vagifem shortage?
« Reply #37 on: March 20, 2013, 01:05:18 PM »

Suzi- I don't really understand what your point is.

Is it that now the product available is weaker  we have to buy more?  If that is so, then drs could surely prescribe the doubled amount on one script?  The cost of NHS prescriptions is not something that bothers the manufacturers i imagine.

If the manufacturers are responding to pressure from medics for a weaker product that is one thing- but TBH I doubt it. It's more likely to be a commercial decision.  But without knowing more, I can't say.

There is still a lot of ignorance amongst GPs as to what is safe re. local HRT. I have heard of women not being given more than a few months' supply whereas my gynae is happy for long term use ( which is what the latest research shows) with the caveat that some women who do not use any progestins should possibly be scanned every couple of years just to check there is no uterine lining build up.

I pay for my prescriptions anyway as they are private. Sometimes the cost is less than the NHS, sometimes it is more.  It's never a break-the-bank amount   and the difference is usually no more than a couple of pounds.  If cost is an issue then it's worth checking the cost of a private script which sometimes is cheaper than the standard NHS charge.







« Last Edit: March 20, 2013, 01:10:24 PM by Gig »
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honeybun

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Re: Vagifem shortage?
« Reply #38 on: March 20, 2013, 02:32:42 PM »

Do NHS doctors issue private prescriptions ?

I think Suzis point may be that the drug companies can make more money by supplying a weaker product.

Honeyb
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Gig

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Re: Vagifem shortage?
« Reply #39 on: March 20, 2013, 02:54:12 PM »

yes!  My old GP usd to offer my husband a private script for all kinds of things that were cheaper to buy privately.  Sometimes they cost nowehre near the £7. 60 ish of a standard script.
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honeybun

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Re: Vagifem shortage?
« Reply #40 on: March 20, 2013, 03:19:42 PM »

Fortunately we don't have that problem in Scotland......for the moment all prescriptions are free no matter what you get.

I have never been offered a private prescription from anyone other than a private doctor.

Honeyb
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Gig

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Re: Vagifem shortage?
« Reply #41 on: March 20, 2013, 03:47:51 PM »

Well there's no need to offer is there is you get them all free.

Lucky Scots is all I can say!

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Gig

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Re: Vagifem shortage?
« Reply #42 on: March 20, 2013, 05:59:25 PM »

Its such a shame that drs are so blind at times. The instructions on my Ovestin say use as required ( manf. advice is once or twice a week) - I use 2 times a week but sometimes more. My dr doesn't count how much I use as long as it's reasonable.
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Hurdity

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Re: Vagifem shortage?
« Reply #43 on: March 20, 2013, 06:13:28 PM »

The recommendation to review or break the treatment once a year was to assess the need for continued use of Vagifem - and for doctors to discuss with women any issues of concern - because long term trials have not been carried out for longer than a year, as I understand. (Please post links to refs if you know of any longer!).

In reality because for most women symptoms return on cessation of treatment, specialists advocated long term indefinite use, even though this could not be supported by trials.

Some experts recommended an annual progestogen challenge (taking a progestogen) to determine whether there is any endometrial build-up ( ie womb lining thickening). If there was any bleeding then this means there is some systemic absorption. Most docs do not do this.

However as we know it is licensed for continuous use without the need for progestogen.

As always - we are all different and all women should take note of any unusual spotting or bleeding especially post-menopause, because it is the extremely unlikely event of cancer is the only concern.

I mean most of us on HRT take/use HRT quite happily and there is likely to be more instance of endo build-up through conventional HRT than with Vagifem.

janm - I think you should insist on being prescribed double the amount on the same prescription if your symptoms return when you reduce to 10  mcg - or even now since you have tried before.

All they need to do is to make sure you are reviewed annually by your doc and discuss any symptoms of concern. I imagine you would go for a scan if you had any bleeding, spotting or unusual uterine pain.

if you wanted to you could even suggest an annual progesterone challenge - which would do the above.

When I've got time (not sure when) I will summarise all the result from that paper which will show that 10 mcg is effective in some trials on very few women - but not effective on 100% of women in the trial. I bet the GPs won't have read it....

Hurdity x


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Suzi Q

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Re: Vagifem shortage?
« Reply #44 on: March 21, 2013, 03:16:03 AM »

Maybe they are right maybe you are right and Im wrong only time will tell
I still think HRT is far far worse has far more sides you only have to read on here to see that
BUT kowone is suggesting that HRT be down graded
Yes maybe there have been longer term trial and not the same for Vagifem Ovestin Ortho gynest?
I do tihnk it is mostly money but thats just my opinion it doesnt make me right just the way I see it xxxxxx
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