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[CLKD]

Mum gets her own room with a shared bathroom next door but no one else is mobile enough to go there.  Assisted bathroom.  She won't have to 'share' not there is space in that room but if people run out of funding they either have to double up or move 'homes'.

What was the question ?

[Sparrow]

Basically provision is a mess. Funding is a mess.  And you have to fight to get what you or a family member is entitled too.  Council care is like gold dust and private care homes are going bust. 

[CLKD]

I think it depends on which area ............ also who is funding care.  They shouldn't go 'bust' if financed correctly.  Should be that monies are poured back into the Company ...........

The place Mum stays is 1 of 2 owned by a small Company who apparently have purchased somewhere beyond York  .  Pity that relatives aren't informed, as there are Plans to extend the place that Mum stays at.  Tiles need replacing on the roof long B4 any new building takes place!!

[Pennyfarthing]

Sadly Councils under-cut many Care Homes by £ousands a year ........ so if it wasn't for people paying more then council funded clients simply wouldn't get the care they deserve. 

This particular case: the lady was moved Wards at least 3 times and several belongings went missing, including her teeth and Pension book.  That is no excuse to not provide her with a pureed meal and assist in feeding her  .  Heads should roll, this is pure neglect.  How can anyone in charge of a Ward not notice that those under their Care  are starving and dehydrated. 

When Dad was in hospital in 2004/6 they had 'protected meal times'.  Not when I was there, I fed a man in the next bed who cried because his lunch time food tray had been placed out of his reach for 3 days  and removed without anyone noticing  that he hadn't eaten anything: "not hungry today then?".  The Nurse came towards me and I said "If you tell me to leave I will phone my contact at the Daily Telegraph". 

Some Hospitals are so short of staff that they encourage relatives to feed patients.  This isn't a 3rd World Country 

“So if it wasn't for people paying more then council funded clients wouldn't get the care they deserve.”

So you think it's OK for SOME people to pick up the tab for other people? 
These funded people could be people who have never had much but they could equally be people who have spent all their money on drinking, smoking, gambling etc.

It would be like you being told you will only get, say,  £20 a week state pension because you are not as poor as some other people.  I'm sure that wouldn't go down well. 

One of the Care Team Managers at Mum's home told me that she has done an Equity Release plan now (she's early 60's.) because she has seen this happen to so many elderly people and she thinks it is grossly unfair.  She has given her two daughters large cash sums to improve their homes and have holidays and she and her hubby go on several luxury holidays each year now.  her daughters are happy with the situation and she says there is no way she is picking up the tab for other peoples care after she has worked so hard all her life.  She actually cried when we discussed my Mum and how she spent all her life cleaning and scrubbing for people, never having holidays and never getting any benefits in her life.  She said that people assume self funders are wealthy people and in many cases they definitely are not.

Inclined to agree on this point. Sometime ago I watched a tv programme about care in which 2 people living in the same care home were paying substantially different amounts. It led me to make the following  comparison. Imagine 2 people who have worked all their lives on an adequate public sector salary but were never well off. Both have managed to buy their own flat/house before the prices shot up but the similarity ends there. Number 1 sacrifices extra holidays and expensive clothes to pay into their work pension fund and pay off their mortgage as quickly as possible so has savings by retirement. The other opts for interest only mortgage and runs up credit card bills for expensive purchases which are still outstanding when they become ill and dependent. On retirement, the 2nd has no savings at all while the first has the value of their property and modest savings.
Yhy should the 2nd pay much more for the same services?

Ahhh, someone on my wavelength!   My Mum had so little money that she was actually on Pension Credit. Her only income was her state Pension and Attendance Allowance in recent years.  However, because she owned her own house she had to sell it to pay her care home fees.  There is no getting around it.  She had lived in her house for over 60 years and it was a council house which they rented for 35 years before buying it at a discount.  She absolutely loved her home and garden but there was no way she was safe there as she was having so many falls and had Alzheimers.  It's bad enough losing your home but THEN paying approx £800 a week when others are funded by the council who are paying £500 for the same room and care is just not right. 

I keep telling my husband we should just spend what we have and enjoy it.  You really are better off with no assets.

I have spoken to so many people and they just do not realise this is happening to lots of old people.  I have even had people saying to me “I think you mean £800 a month don't you?”  Err no, £800 a WEEK and many are even more than that.  I looked at a couple which were £1200 a week.

[Sparrow]

Yes the system is grossly unfair.  However the lack of provision for those that have no funding is more unfair, in my view.  If you have no private means it is now near impossible to get a care home place, particularly if there are family members who social services expect to fill the care gap.

It's the system that is wrong, in every aspect, not people with no funding having an advantage because they most certainly do not.

[CLKD]

We see our property, currently worth £300.00, as part of our Pension which will go towards hip replacements or care fees.  Those that pay in a care/nursing home get single rooms often with en-suite whereas those put into 'care' without funds often have to share, my idea of hell in my old age!

People where Mum stays are a mix, council funded - who don't pay the full weekly wack for clients - and people who self fund. There is always a gap!!   Mum's fees went up £100.00 a week, 1st April with no warning ! fortunately we are in a position where we can juggle monies which means we lend her £5,000 a year and the Financial Advisor will pay it back once her accounts are topped up with Isa withdrawal as the year goes by.  She doesn't receive anything more for the extra £100.00 per week other than not having to share with someone who doesn't pay the full weekly amount.

[Pennyfarthing]

Yes the system is grossly unfair.  However the lack of provision for those that have no funding is more unfair, in my view.  If you have no private means it is now near impossible to get a care home place, particularly if there are family members who social services expect to fill the care gap.

It's the system that is wrong, in every aspect, not people with no funding having an advantage because they most certainly do not.

In my experience people who depend on social services for funding don't have problems getting care home places.  I worked with older people for 16 years (not in a caring capacity) and my friend has just retired as a qualified social worker spending her whole working life in Adult care so she advised me a lot. 

Where my Mum is now, they take in people who have just left hospital but are not fit enough to go home.  Many have been in there months and do not have to pay a penny.  My friend the social worker tells me that some people know how to work the system and are proud of the fact that “this is not costing me a penny” so they hang on as long as they can.

Before I got my Mum settled I visited 14 care and nursing homes and saw just one home with one shared room which they kept for people who didn't like to be alone and needed company. 

[Sparrow]

Yes the system is grossly unfair.  However the lack of provision for those that have no funding is more unfair, in my view.  If you have no private means it is now near impossible to get a care home place, particularly if there are family members who social services expect to fill the care gap.

It's the system that is wrong, in every aspect, not people with no funding having an advantage because they most certainly do not.

In my experience people who depend on social services for funding don't have problems getting care home places.  I worked with older people for 16 years (not in a caring capacity) and my friend has just retired as a qualified social worker spending her whole working life in Adult care so she advised me a lot. 

Where my Mum is now, they take in people who have just left hospital but are not fit enough to go home.  Many have been in there months and do not have to pay a penny.  My friend the social worker tells me that some people know how to work the system and are proud of the fact that “this is not costing me a penny” so they hang on as long as they can.

Before I got my Mum settled I visited 14 care and nursing homes and saw just one home with one shared room which they kept for people who didn't like to be alone and needed company.

Well my experience is totally different. 

My sister and I tried for 8 months to find a place for my Dad.  He was on a merry go round of being at home,  being in hospital after yet another fall and in a temporary rehabilitation home.  His last months were a nightmare and he eventually died in hospital after totally giving up. My sister and I had to care as best we could for him.  As I lived a considerably distance away and my sister also cares for a disabled husband this was not easy. We would have loved to be able to 'work the system', to get help for my Dad, obviously we did not.

Your experience is not what we experienced at all.

[Pennyfarthing]

Yes the system is grossly unfair.  However the lack of provision for those that have no funding is more unfair, in my view.  If you have no private means it is now near impossible to get a care home place, particularly if there are family members who social services expect to fill the care gap.

It's the system that is wrong, in every aspect, not people with no funding having an advantage because they most certainly do not.
[/

In my experience people who depend on social services for funding don't have problems getting care home places.  I worked with older people for 16 years (not in a caring capacity) and my friend has just retired as a qualified social worker spending her whole working life in Adult care so she advised me a lot. 

Where my Mum is now, they take in people who have just left hospital but are not fit enough to go home.  Many have been in there months and do not have to pay a penny.  My friend the social worker tells me that some people know how to work the system and are proud of the fact that “this is not costing me a penny” so they hang on as long as they can.

Before I got my Mum settled I visited 14 care and nursing homes and saw just one home with one shared room which they kept for people who didn't like to be alone and needed company.

Well my experience is totally different. 

My sister and I tried for 8 months to find a place for my Dad.  He was on a merry go round of being at home,  being in hospital after yet another fall and in a temporary rehabilitation home.  His last months were a nightmare and he eventually died in hospital after totally giving up. My sister and I had to care as best we could for him.  As I lived a considerably distance away and my sister also cares for a disabled husband this was not easy. We would have loved to be able to 'work the system', to get help for my Dad, obviously we did not.

Your experience is not what we experienced at all.

that's very sad.  I think the most important thing people can do is insist that their elderly relatives do not leave hospital without a Care Plan in place, however hard they push you.  Many older people tell the staff they will be fine at home or they have people to help them when in fact they don't and then they end up back in hospital a few days later.

When my Dad was dying they sent him home to the care of my Mum who was then 82 and could barely get up the stairs herself and was recovering from a second bowel cancer op.  I didn't even know about Care Plans then!  They didn't involve us at all, just asked Dad what he wanted to do and he said “go home” which was entirely the wrong thing to do. 

[CLKD]

They have to listen to the client though.  One can sit in a room with a dementia sufferer for example and it's tick boxes: the relative can't interrupt even when they know that what the client says.  My friend knew her Uncle couldn't manage: but it was "My daughter will come and cook for me" but the daughter lived 250 miles away, hence my friend being in on the appt..  That question wasn't asked though, "Does your daughter live close by and can she cook?".  The box was ticked: daughter will care!

What people don't realise is that one pays for the whole package: building, maintenance, insurance etc.   DH and I were talking earlier today on the back of this thread and he wishes that the care system was more transparent.  We don't know if Mum is paying the same fees as other self funders ........... or if they see her as a cash cow  .  When fees went up in April the lady who had a separate room has had to double up as her funding has dried up, it's quite common in the care industry.  She does have a property but we don't know if that has already been sold thus far ...... also, relatives do not have to pay for care, it's a choice.  The Government cannot take monies from relatives in order to top up what LA should be paying. 

It's emotional blackmail, because many 'contracts' state that relatives will have to find another situation should for any reason the position 'fails' but it's a bit wishy washy as to what 'failure' would be.  Mum had 7 days notice when Dad was in a Home.  But the 'contract' wasn't specific and she refused to allow me to put it in front of the family Solicitor.

[CLKD]

What would you recommend as 'toys' for elderly people?  I may look at Early Learning.  The residents already get a quiotes-type throwing game but the carer doesn't add up any scores  .  Obviously hop scotch and Blind Mans' Bluff R out  ........

There aren't enough able minded residents to play cards or dominoes. 

[CLKD]

Any point now targeting MPs regarding the lack of care across the UK? 

[Pennyfarthing]

Any point now targeting MPs regarding the lack of care across the UK?

But that would be political and it seems we are not allowed to discuss politics on here. 

[CLKD]

Crikey.  Retirement villages - people are exercising  .......... organised.  My idea of Hell 

[CLKD]

For PF is she wants to join in