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[Aubrey]

I'm trying to stabilise my menopause symptoms and I came across this. And because I've heard loads of stories on here about women taking HRT and not getting symptom relief, I thought I'd share it.

https://thebms.org.uk/2023/09/tachyphylaxis-with-hrt/

[Kathleen]

Hello Aubrey


Thank you very much for posting this link.

When I saw my NHS Consultant a while ago he said that for Oestrogen ' less is more' and he had noticed this with his implant patients.

At the time I was using Sandrena and Utrogestan as my HRT but I still wasn't balanced emotionally. I have now been HRT free for four months and seeing some return of my physical symptoms but my emotional ones are no worse. I am tempted to believe that in fact all my symptoms are milder than they were on HRT but that might be just wishful thinking!

In an effort to help myself I have increased the amount of phytoestrogens in my diet and hopefully this will help to get me on an even keel both physically and emotionally. It's definitely worth a try.

Thanks again and wishing you well.

K.

[CrispyChick]

That sounds positive for you Kathleen - I know you've been searching a long time.

So your consultant really believed in less is more. What does that really mean, do you think?

Small amounts go a long way? Many ladies are being overdosed? Standard preparations don't really lead to tailored fishing unfortunately.

I'm incredibly sensitive to everything! I'm now trying hrt. But I've started on 1/4 of a conti patch. I tried to increase to 1/2 but all hell broke loose in one day. So I dropped back.

Basically I'm only encouraged to increase because noone ever seems to take as low a dose as 12.5mcg. So I'm conditioned to believing I will absolutely need more. But maybe not 

[Kathleen]

Hello Crispy chick

The Consultant I saw has been in the job for thirty two years ( he delivered my son ) so I was interested in his opinion. He said that he had some patients who were doing well on 12.5 mg of Oestrogen on alternate days. In his clinic he often deals with women who have implants and he said that women often wanted to replace the implant before it had expired but then found that wasn't necessary and they preferred a lower dose. When he said that 'less is more' I assumed he meant that less oestrogen was more effective.

I hope I have remembered all that correctly.
I was there to see him regarding post meno bleeding and because my tests were all clear he said that the HRT was the problem and that I should reduce it. I had explained that I was up and down emotionally and when I told him that I nearly cried in his waiting room but felt fine talking to him, he didn't seem too bothered ( I think men don't realise how embarrassing and worrying it is to be so emotionally unpredictable. I imagine his confidence would be knocked if he kept bursting into tears during appointments!).

I hope this is helpful and I wish you well.

Take care.

K.

[CrispyChick]

Thank you Kathleen.

That's actually incredibly helpful. When you're on a low dose and the mainstream is a fair bit higher and all the posts you read about are ladies on much higher doses going up and up...it's hard to believe you should stick and see what happens.

I just feel like if I 'inevitably' have to go up - I'll go through all the side affects again. So I thought better to just get up quickly.

So that's actually very reassuring.

It does make sense to stick and see. Rather than boom and bust.

In this respect then, some ladies just he started on far too high a dose. I mean, conti patches only come in 50mcg!

I totally hear you on the emotions. It's incredibly hard to live with the swings. Mine have become unbearable this last 18 months. Awful. Men certainly do not get it.

[sheila99]

Crispy have you tried an oestrogen only patch? In case it's the progestogen that doesn't agree with you rather than oestrogen. It might be that you absorb particularly well so need a smaller dose than the rest of us.

[CrispyChick]

I've not Sheila. I'm a very complicated case. I'm already on cerazette, desogestral mini pill.

It's all a very long story. But obviously I'm not allowed E without licenced progesterone (mininpill not enough supposedly).  I can't take utrogestan. So combi patch it was.

But it's definitely crossed my mind...

[sheila99]

Utro isn't the only option, you could try provera, norethisterone or a mirena separately. And there are other conti patches with a different kind of progesterone you could try.  If it's evorel conti you're using now norethisterone may not be a good move as it's the same as the patches.
 Personally I'd be tempted to ask for oestrogen only patches with any other progestin which you can delay taking for 2-4 weeks until you know if you're good or not on oestrogen only.
 I thought you could use 2xpop but perhaps that's off licence too.

[CrispyChick]

It is off licence to use 2xPOP. I actually started out on 2xPOP with this current trial but it supressed me so far I was on my knees with low E.

As I say, I'm a very complicated case. I've been through a chem meno last year. It's all been hell.

I react to everything. Estrogen, progesterone, no friggin hormones. I do t really think I'm struggling with the norethesterone - I'm just struggling adding in HRT per se. As I expected.

But thank you. I shall bare all those options in mind. X

[treeoflife]

Hi

I was told I had tachyphylaxis two years into having the estrogen /testosterone implant.

Feel I am back to square one. I am Eight years post surgical menopause due to pmdd. I’m Still trying to find a balance…... 

Previously I was on 200mcg patches. Still had cyclical symptoms once a month. Then I tried the implant. Still struggling. I’m on 50mcg of estrogen. Assuming it isn’t enough as I’m feeling dire with symptoms. Last implant was July 2024. Or It’s still too much? So difficult to know.

I can feel fine then the symptoms hit me like a ton of bricks.

Is it worth trying the spray or gel ?

Thank you

Jenny