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[Lclegg002]

Hey Crispy  sorry you’re still no better going through this shit show. Are you taking Cerazette or some cheap desogestrel equivalent? Only because I felt good on Cerelle (double dose) then got changed to some generic crap and I’m pretty sure it didn’t shut me down. I really still felt my cycle on the cheaper stuff.
I’m a month into 50mg patch now with Slynd (5 months) and do feel better. I still feel flat, anxious at times (easily overwhelmed) and my energy levels aren’t great but I am actually coping more. I still feel however I’m having a cycle in background or my patch is not consistently giving same estrogen dose as I have some days of stronger symptoms than others. It definitely took 3 months for my body to get used to Slynd…I’m pretty sure the first couple of months my cycle was breaking through so it might be the same for you and you just need to give it a few months for it to switch off the ovaries xx

[bombsh3ll]

If you are not yet menopausal you will always have some small follicles visible on ultrasound.

Even women shut down for IVF with buserelin injections etc have these.

But they should all be tiny and uniform in size, no growing or dominant follicles.

A couple of weeks is probably not sufficient to get the full benefits of treatment either.

I need to book my scan soon which I have for ovarian screening - I will do it after my son's GCSEs - and I always have lots of tiny antral follicles despite long term continuous COCP.

In fact I am always pleased to hear that I have the ovaries of a 25 year old - no follicles would mean I was menopausal!

[CrispyChick]

Hey LClegg. Good to hear from you.

Thanks so much for reaching out on this. As you can probably tell I'm flapping around.  .  I was just a bit disturbed by the radiographer saying she could see follicles like in a normal cycle yesterday. But it was only day 11 of my 2x cerazette trial. Just overthinking. Just so so desperate for some relief.

I only use branded cerazette. I learnt that the hard way in my 30s. Think it was actually cerelle that I didn't like. So that's not an issue, and never will be.

I have now gone past the point I got to with slynd - which was 11 days  . Slynd was awful for me. Now, I've had a rough 11 days so far on my 2x cerazette, but I'm still going.

I think my biggest concern is noone knows I'm doing it. Am seeing my GP Mon, fingers crossed she is supportive.

So, could I ask - why were you on 2x desogestral before? Did someone recommend it??  And did it work for you when using cerelle? And u only got into difficulty when u were switched brand?

Then moved to slynd?? And it took a good few months to feel some sort of shut down? That's reassuring. I got to 7 weeks on single cerazette last year and seemed to get worse.

I'm scared the same thing will happen. I'm scared of the side affects, which were bad enough on one cerazette. But right now I need to try something and assess if I stop feeling like I'd no longer like to live because I feel so physically ill. So my benchmark of improvement is very low!

So interesting about your estrogen. Patch? Have u tested your blood? When I was in chem meno a 50mcg patch wasn't enough. Obviously I was at zero E though.

My next thought was to add in a 50mcg patch. Since the Coc pill took all this away 5 years ago. But, I'm not convinced I'll find a medic willing to support 2x cerazette as the P. There was a 1993 study but nothing ever came of it.

But, I probably need to do as you have and proceed on my cerazette alone for a few months first.

I'm really hoping my GP supports me. I'd love to hear what led you to 2x cerelle, how it worked and what support you got.

Thanks. Xx

[CrispyChick]

Thanks bomb. Really appreciate that.

I kind of wish I hadn't asked about the follicles now. It was just the way she said it looks like it would in a normal cycle.  .

And I certainly feel just as bad as a normal cycle. Yet. 

Ok. So I just need to move past the follicle comment. I'll do a blood test day 21, see where my E is sitting.

Good luck with your scan then.

GCSE? I thought u were Scotland?? I've got one starting Highers this week. Scary times x

[joziel]

Crispy, Newson Health will def support 2x Cerazettes if you explain what you've tried before and if this works for you. Just saying...

[bombsh3ll]

My son has been online schooled for the past couple of years as he was violently assaulted in his state school, and had never thrived there anyway, being placed in the wrong year group with people 1-2 years older

Your GP doesn't have to support 2* desogestrel as your progestin. You can get single dose from them for "contraception", and buy more without a prescription, or just buy all of it if less faff.

You can get estrogen patches and micronised progesterone from the NHS in addition to single dose cerazette.

Obviously what you do with the progesterone is then up to you - desogestrel is many times more potent on the endometrium than progesterone so there is no safety issue with not taking it if you are on 150mcg desogestrel continuously.

Think about it - you could take Marvelon which also has 150mcg desogestrel with 30 micrograms of ethinylestradiol. This is much more potent than any strength of 17 beta estradiol patch.

[CrispyChick]

Thanks both.

Sorry bomb, didn't mean for you to have to explain yourself on your son's GCSEs. Glad you found a solution.

So yes, I've already thought about how I was easily given marvelon and how ridiculous it is to then have to fight to add an E patch to my 150mcg cerazette.

And yes, I've sussed it all out how to get the things I'd like to try.

But ...this is about support.  I've absolutely been through the wringer over the last 7 years. The chem meno nearly finished me off mentally. And now I'm seeking quality of life so I no longer spend most days feeling like I'd rather be dead.It would be nice to have my GPs support in this. Somone to help me tweak things, rather than me deceptively acquiring things to take in an underhand manner. You know?!?

But, I guess I'll soon find out...

To be honest, it might all be academic if I don't get on with the double cerazette. Things are not good so far at almost two weeks in. 

And yes, I could pay to go to Newson. But I shouldn't have to if I just want to trial something.

Hoping LClegg will be along with her 2x cerelle experience ...

[joziel]

The prob I find with all the meno clinics, is they only do meno stuff. So as soon as there are other things going on, they can be a bit 'computer says no'. Like, thanks, we've thoroughly explored all available doses of the 3 hormones you deal in and I still have symptoms and you can't suggest anything else.

This is the same as the private thyroid clinics: Thanks, but we've thoroughly explored every available dose of T3 and T4 which seems suitable and I still have symptoms and you are not suggesting anything.....

Then you end up back at square one with another doctor. Explaining everything again. This is basically my life.

[CrispyChick]

Yip. And totally mine too.

But the only person to stand by me and support me in this has been my GP. So I'm going to be honest and see what happens...I'd really like her support.

Fingers crossed. What I'm trialing is hardly the most hardcore stuff  two x cerazette. And possibly addition of an E patch, eventually. 

Let's see...

Every expert has washed their hands of me. 

[joziel]

Hope it works...

I'm going to my GP tomorrow, it's the first time I've met her in person (always had phone appointments and she's been very nice and agreed to my very high doses of HRT from Newson Clinic)... Tomorrow I'm taking her all my thyroid stuff and telling her I'm on thyroid meds and what happened when I tried to come off (and do I need a referral to endocrinology to check for central hypothyroidism and other hormones). I'm not sure how much of this shitshow I can explain in 10 minutes so she better listen well 

[CrispyChick]

I hear you joziel.

I'm there today too. I've got a list as long as my arm.

But, she is on the whole supportive and I get double appointments at her request - probably because I always make her overrun. 🤣

Good luck to us today 💪 May our lists win some support. X

[Lclegg002]

Hey crispy, sorry for my late response… I’ve actually been really busy all weekend as been feeling half decent so try and shove in as much as I can as doesn’t happen often!
So I went on 2 x Cerelle because I hated utrogestan and was told by Newson that this would be a feasible option. Initially I was just on the one as my doctor said it would stop ovulation and hopefully the highs and lows but then for the HRT element I needed to increase. At that point I then seemed to tolerate a much higher dose of estrogen (presumably because my own cycle had been switched off and Estrogen was at a lower level) and I felt really well for about 3 months on 3.5 pumps of gel.
Anyway, it didn’t last long because I spoke to my nhs gp to get some vaginal Estrogen on a separate occasion and she questioned the use of the 2 x cerelle and was very unhappy I was on it and said a top consultant gynae said it was dangerous and I shouldn’t be on it. Anyway super health anxiety me then stopped it, went back on utrogestan, hated it again so had mirena put in which I also hate because it never stopped my cycle and started to feel crazy again… super highs and super lows.
I actually got the Slynd through a private pharmacy because there’s no way my doctor would allow it with mirena in situ and Newson weren’t keen to prescribe til I’d explored histamine intolerance for long enough (which they think I have). I was DESPERATE so put myself on it and have been feeling better than I was. I had a blood read of 82pmol on Slynd a few weeks back which promoted me to put myself on a 50 patch as I was feeling very low in mood and exhausted. No idea what my level is now but still feel the Estrogen isn’t right. I continue to feel really fatigued and easily worn out, joint pain and mood is very flat and can’t be bothered with life. I’ve just got some 75s so I may try them soon but one thing I’ve never seemed to have any consistency with is energy levels. Even on 2 x desogestrel and 3.5 pumps gel I had many days of chronic fatigue. I just don’t understand what my body needs. I’m also on testogel 1/8th of packet per day.
I’m pretty sure the 2 x cerazette will eventually switch off your cycle. It’s hard to know what to do where the estrogen’s concerned though isn’t it? I know I needed it because of my mood but it’s a very hard thing to get right and I’m convinced even though I no longer ovulate I still have a cycle in the background which is making the estrogen impossible to get right consistently . xx

[CrispyChick]

Woo hoo. My GP didn't blink about my 2x cerazette. It's so nice to have support.

I'm no where near thinking about adding in E, but she said she'll check if it would be ok, based on what I'm telling her is in the BMS guidelines and a 1993 study.  I suspect it may officially be a no. But we all know I can get E with separate P. 

So I'm happy with that. She was also incredibly supportive with all my other requests. I've asked for full thyroid panel and she certainly had a record of tsh, T4 and T3 from tears ago...so will see what transpires.

Awww LClegg. It's all so frustrating isnt it. If you felt good on the 2x cerazette plus oestrogel, have you considered going back to that combo???  Although sounds like the slynd and patch is improving things a bit.

It really is all do utterly frustrating. To find something u can tolerate and helps and then be told you can't take it - for no other reason other than the research isn't there.  .

Are you taking slynd on top of mirena then???

Oh, by the way, my GP had been notified I'd bought Zoley pill.  . So they do actually seem to tell them. 

Joziel - How'd you get on with your GP?

[joziel]

My GP was lovely. I managed to leave out my sex hormone results so she couldn't see what my E levels were (they were only on one thyroid result page) and just gave her all the thyroid results I've had done, ever. I talked her through it like a slideshow, showing her a result and then what was done next and why and the next result and so on....

Anyway, she tried a tiny challenge, pushing back her chair and saying 'I'm just a bit concerned that you may have been led up the garden path a bit with the thyroid meds and now the same thing is happening with the HRT...' but when I replied that I felt tons better since increasing my estrogen, she didn't continue that at all and just dropped it - and renewed my HRT prescription for this month in the same consultation.

She has referred me to endocrinology for the thyroid stuff. It's probably going to be a couple of months to come through. Meanwhile I've increased my T4 after getting my last results back (it was way below range) and after nearly a week on 100mcg, I am finally sleeping a lot better. I'm sure this isn't going to get it high enough and I'll need another increase. My goal is to get the T4 up and reduce the T3 to something minimal which the NHS will approve of. I no longer seem to have rT3 issues, rT3 is now below range - but will monitor that as I increase T4. Got an online appointment with my private thyroid doctor tomorrow so hopefully we can keep trying to work on this in the next few months whilst I wait for the endo referral. The guy I've been referred to supports NDT use and T3...

[CrispyChick]

If anyone would like to support me with a pep talk - It'd be nich appreciated. 

I'm now just over 3 weeks into double cerazette. Making absolutely no difference to my daily awful poison and flu (perhaps it won't). Got added side affects - today extremely achy back. Constantly dizzy, woozy and motion sick.

It's 'only' 3 weeks right?!?

I'm kinda wishing I'd just gone for combined pill now. 🙈. That seemed to trigger at the 3 weeks mark, when it worked before. Sigh.

I'd just love a little motivation to keep going. On the plus side - I am still going. 

And, I'm not expecting anything near perfection. I'd just love not to feel like I'm dying (or want to die  ) every single day.