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[Angieyy]

I started Progesterone 100mg (25 days out of a 28 day cycle) and 1pump of oestrogel daily looking on the back it say each pump contains 750 micrograms of estradiol.

I have suffered with severe depression in the past and have had postnatal depression with psychosis but that was 21 years ago and have recovered from that. I do suffer with anxiety and low mood but that has been the stress of looking after both my mum and dad who have both been unwell the last 7 years and suffer with anxiety but mainly when having to take parents to hospital apps.

My Main reason for taking hrt was for my hempilegic migraines and vertigo, I've not been able to work and have got worse since peri menopause.

20 days in and my mental health was at the lowest it has ever been since I can remember I woke up with anxiety daily that just would not go and I started to feel depressed, flat and like I did when I started with server depression. I manged to speak with my doctor who told me to:
Stop taking the progesterone, I was inserting this vaginally as I read it has less side effects and to take it every 13weeks only for 14 days.  The anxiety has gone now again my moods have been somewhat flat still but yesterday I felt normal and had energy today im just flat again, my main problem is my breast are now super painful like when I had my son I do suffer with cystic breasts and have had a few mamograms in the past and they are all ok.  This is more my nipples and because im only taking 1 pump I don't know how to approach this. Doctors are just not on hand to answer your questions I'm not sure there is a lower dose of estrogen available. 
I have been told to take the gel due to my migraines as carries less of a risk of me having a stroke.

Sorry for the long post but just wanted to give as much info as possible

I also feel my mental health was better before I started taking the hrt, Im 5 weeks in now and I keep saying to myself I will give it the 3 months

Thank you

[CLKD]

  

Vertigo can be eased with appropriate medication, 'stugeron' I think is the prescribed go to. 

How have your migraines been in the last 3-5 years?  Hormonal upheaval can make them worse.

Many have problems with the progesterone part of a regime.  Hopefully they will be along.

[Angieyy]

I am having a massive wobble tonight due to the pain in my breast and the general feeling of heaviness in them, having cysts are bad enough but this has made them worse.

Migraines have been horrific the last 7 years weekly with 3 /4 days in bed then sometimes a day or 2 in between rest and them bam they would come back sometimes on the other side. I am pretty holistic in my approach to health so this was years of toying with going on Hrt.

 I have acupuncture, meditate, moxa and other alternative therapies nothing has touched my migraines except for riding it out and the medication I was being prescribed the side effects were just not worth taking

I have felt so strange on hrt a bit detached from reality I honestly do not like it, Iv'e never been able to take the pill it used to make me sick.  so I haven't taken anything since I was 25 and im know 47.

Can you just stop taking Oestrogel after 5 weeks, Its so difficult speaking with a doctor I put in a request last week to speak with some one about it and it was classed as a general app so they had nothing until November.  Luckily I got a phone call to say there was a Trainee Nurse Practitioner available to speak with, she was really good and admitted she didn't know enough about it all so went and spoke to my doctor whilst I waited.

That's when she came back and he had advised me to stop the utrogestan and take it in 13 week intervals for 14 days at time. 

I guess I just need some reassurance that breast pain is part of it but will it get better or worse the longer I take it?  I do have cysts at the moment that are painful and one of them you can see buckling out of my skin.  I put caster oil packs on them and they reduce in size and some times disappear.

[CLKD]

How were your breasts during your menstruating years? 

MayB put the product names into the search box: individually : and read the appropriate threads, until some1 responds who knows about this regime?  Make notes ;-).

Personally I would reduce or stop the HRT. 

There is a new drug for migraines and I was under the impression that 1 wasn't prescribed some forms of HRT for those that suffered.  Sorry I can't remember the name of the drug 

[Angieyy]

How were your breasts during your menstruating years? 

MayB put the product names into the search box: individually : and read the appropriate threads, until some1 responds who knows about this regime?  Make notes ;-).

Personally I would reduce or stop the HRT. 

There is a new drug for migraines and I was under the impression that 1 wasn't prescribed some forms of HRT for those that suffered.  Sorry I can't remember the name of the drug 

Thank you for your advice I don't ever remember having a problem with my breasts only when I got in to my 40s and started with painful cysts

Unfortunately the neurologist had stated that because I suffer with hemiplegic migraines I cant have some migraine medication along with hrt it was One or the other.  I also was told by a gynaecologist that my symptoms where not worth the risks of hrt for myself but this was years ago when every one was scared of prescribing it.  They seemed to think I was more at risk of having a stroke with hrt.

Im pretty healthy in general, low blood pressure, non smoker non drinker so I think I will be ok.  I also haven't had the daily headaches that I used to have. I've had a migraine but it didn't seem to last as long.

[Mary G]

Angieyy, sorry to hear you have having such a difficult time.

From what you're have said, it sounds like you might be progesterone intolerant.  You mentioned post natal depression which is an indicator.  Did you also have PMS?  The type of migraine you have is often triggered by progesterone too.  Did you have migraines during pregnancy and/or menstrual migraines?  Your doctor has suggested a very long spell of oestrogen only so it sounds like they are thinking progesterone intolerance.

The late Professor John Studd has written a lot of papers on progesterone intolerance and post partum depression so you might want to have a Google and read up on that and see if any of it seems relevant to you.

Often women in your situation take the pill to override the cycle but you said it makes you feel ill so that is not really an option.  Probably the best way forward for now is to see if you feel better on oestrogen only and if you do, you probably need to increase to two pumps of Oestrogel to get anything real benefit a mood lift.

For the progesterone component of HRT, a low dose progesterone coil might be a good option and I do stress a low dose coil like the Jaydess as opposed to the higher dose Mirena because you are (I think) progesterone intolerant but this will only be confirmed if you feel better on oestrogen only.

For the painful cystic breasts, have you ever been offered progesterone cream or gel?  It has very good results for some women and it is not harmful.

I do hope that helps.

[Angieyy]

Angieyy, sorry to hear you have having such a difficult time.

From what you're have said, it sounds like you might be progesterone intolerant.  You mentioned post natal depression which is an indicator.  Did you also have PMS?  The type of migraine you have is often triggered by progesterone too.  Did you have migraines during pregnancy and/or menstrual migraines?  Your doctor has suggested a very long spell of oestrogen only so it sounds like they are thinking progesterone intolerance.

The late Professor John Studd has written a lot of papers on progesterone intolerance and post partum depression so you might want to have a Google and read up on that and see if any of it seems relevant to you.

Often women in your situation take the pill to override the cycle but you said it makes you feel ill so that is not really an option.  Probably the best way forward for now is to see if you feel better on oestrogen only and if you do, you probably need to increase to two pumps of Oestrogel to get anything real benefit a mood lift.

For the progesterone component of HRT, a low dose progesterone coil might be a good option and I do stress a low dose coil like the Jaydess as opposed to the higher dose Mirena because you are (I think) progesterone intolerant but this will only be confirmed if you feel better on oestrogen only.

For the painful cystic breasts, have you ever been offered progesterone cream or gel?  It has very good results for some women and it is not harmful.

I do hope that helps.

Thank you for your reply, lost to look into.  Yes I have suffered terrible with pmt maybe pmdd but I've never had it diagnosed as I wouldn't tell my doctor. I have always suffered with intrusive thoughts, internal voices , extremely low mood and not wanting to be here the week leading up to my period but then as soon my period comes everything goes away and its like im (normal) again.

 I just held on to the fact I knew I would be ok in a week.  Its been a real struggle throughout my 20s and 30s and I guess I was scared to tell my doctor in case they took my son away from me when I was younger. hes now 21 and he has no clue which im happy about.

Now being perimenopausal I do so much better with my mental health. I don't have any of it, in fact I think I do better without hormones but what has come at the cost is racing resting heart rate, palpitations, water infections, migraines, vertigo, stiff joints, a constant feeling of being exhausted and not much stamina.

Since taking the hrt the anxiety that I've had, has been amplified and I couldn't leave the house one day, I also had a day where I became confused and a real foggy brain and not knowing what day it was I have never had this before.

My breast have been so painful and felt heavy also larger that on Sunday I stopped taking the estrogen gel too. Its now Wednesday and they are starting to feel less painful I can also think straight again and feel so much better in my self I was becoming so snappy and irritated also that my son asked me if I was ok, as i'm normally easy going and not easily bothered by things. 

My plan was to wait until my breast felt back to normal and restart the estrogel maybe just a half or a quarter pump per day and see how I get on with that.

I do have gallbladder and gilberts disease so not sure if that has any effect on the way my body processes it.

Thank You

[Mary G]

It's does sound like progesterone intolerance.

I also have Gilbert's syndrome inherited from my father!  My sister has it too.  It's supposed to be symptom free but for most people it's not.  It's very common to have IBS, gallbladder problems and bile acid diarrhoea either permanently or intermittently.  What type of gallbladder issues do you have?  My father ended up having his gallbladder removed.  Gilbert's does mean you have difficulty metabolising oral oestrogen but it should not affect transdermal oestrogen.

It's easy to understand why you would feel better without progesterone and a cycle but as you say, the problem is other symptoms rear their ugly head and need to be managed.  You might do well on the very long cycle prescribed by your doctor or alternatively, a very low dose of oestrogen and a low dose progesterone coil.  Obviously you won't know until you try. 

Try not to worry about the breast pain.  I had a spell of it myself but it went away once I was settled on a workable HRT regime.

[JS79]

MaryG, I have Gilbert's too, just finally officially been confirmed even though they have highlighted my raised level every time I get a blood test since 2003.
They told me it will make no difference to my life and I will go jaundice quicker than most. Maybe I should look into it. I have terrible silent reflux and sometimes pain in my abdomen which GP thinks may be hiatus hernia but because of all the Peri symptoms she doesn't want to send me for a scope.

[Angieyy]

They say no side effects with gilberts disease, but a lovely consultant from the gastro department actually told me it wasn't uncommon to get fatigued more easily and to feel wiped out if you do too much, episode can be triggered by stress, illness dehydration exercising too much. My doctor never told me I had it even though my bilirubin has been high for many years it was the consultant at the hospital mentioned it in a phone call like I already knew. I have also read that depression can also be part of along with fatigue.

[Angieyy]

I also have a gall stone which hasn't flared up for years but its too big to pass, I know its there lurking in the back ground and think its partly why my migraines are so bad, I also have difficulty swallowing certain foods. I start off being ok and then after a while I struggle to swallow it its mostly starchy foods and have a problem with potatoes especially mashed potato. its like my stomach acid dries up and I have no saliva so have to stop eating.

Again I just haven't told the doctor because I just wonder if its all part of the peri menopause or the gallbladder stone I have and yet another issue to go with all the others 

My mum along with my other 3 sisters all have issues with their stomach, none of them took hrt 2 tried it and came off it within weeks as it made them unwell.

I wanted to keep trying with it as mum never took hrt and her family suffered with heart disease and her mum, dad and brother all passed away from it, mum actually had a heart attack and has heart failure now. I read Hrt can protect you from this? 

[Mary G]

There seem to be quite a few of us on here with Gilbert's syndrome.

I also started suffering with (silent) migraines at the very beginning of the menopause - I stopped producing something that protected me from migraines during fertile years and it was probably progesterone because that tanks first.  There seems to be a link between Gilbert's, migraine and IBS/gut issues. It's also common to end up with gallstones and sometimes gallbladder sludge apparently.  Jaundice is mentioned a lot in everything I have read but I have never experienced that. I do have extreme tiredness, the IBS sometimes, feeling very ill with colds and migraines. 

[K45]

Thanks for sharing this as so many doctors seem to disregard GS. If I do too much one day then I certainly feel it the next and anxiety is a quite a common issue with it as well as having difficulty with certain drugs.

quote author=Angieyy link=topic=70995.msg961034#msg961034 date=1729120449]
They say no side effects with gilberts disease, but a lovely consultant from the gastro department actually told me it wasn't uncommon to get fatigued more easily and to feel wiped out if you do too much, episode can be triggered by stress, illness dehydration exercising too much. My doctor never told me I had it even though my bilirubin has been high for many years it was the consultant at the hospital mentioned it in a phone call like I already knew. I have also read that depression can also be part of along with fatigue.
[/quote]