Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[Mary G]

Some very interesting comments from Penguin, Nas, Crispy, CLKD and Sheila which I agree with.

As Crispy said, the whole area of the menopause and HRT is a complete mess and has been for years.  The NHS and the BMS are all over the place and seem to be getting themselves tied up in knots over studies and ideology - they come across as anti private healthcare. 

I wonder if the medical profession bang on about studies and guidelines incessantly in other areas of medicine?  Is so much proof/evidence needed for thyroid medication/treatment for example?

Obviously the NHS need to have some basic guidelines but they also need maximum flexibility.  Guidelines are supposed to be guidelines, not gospel.

Bottom line, the medics who are slagging off Louise Newson are probably happy to sit in front of a woman whose life is falling apart because their HRT dose is completely wrong and needs adjusting but they refuse to help them because of the NHS guidelines.  It's a disgrace.  No wonder so many women seek help privately.

[CLKD]

Guidelines: mayB there is so much litigation in various areas that it is probably safer for them to stick to guidelines than risk listening to the patient then thinking outside the box ?

Certainly as far as I am aware with regards Thyroid function tests, even when patients continue to complain of symptoms, if blood tests are 'within normal limits' they are unlikely to get important extra tests performed.  ?? T4 and T5 ??

[Penguin]

The same also applies at the lower end of the spectrum where woman ate using bhrt clinics to get bespoke amounts of E and P because the standard doses don't suit. 

This is frowned upon by the BMS, the NHS and, many times, by vocal members on this forum.

Nope, they don't have the scientific studies either - but they do test, adjust, test again and insist on scans. I know which I think is safer.

It s very very obviously not 'one size (or perhaps 4 in the NHS) fits all'. Look at the problems many woman have with 100mg utrogestan. No other natural prog option. Yet some of these woman could be on tiny doses of E. Bonkers.

It's the biggest medical mess I've come across so far in my life.

Yep also agree with this too. Was responding to ElkWarning's response to Sheila about higher doses but also applies to BHRT too. They need to do the research rather than just say we don't know if it is safe.

[Penguin]

Guidelines: mayB there is so much litigation in various areas that it is probably safer for them to stick to guidelines than risk listening to the patient then thinking outside the box ?

Certainly as far as I am aware with regards Thyroid function tests, even when patients continue to complain of symptoms, if blood tests are 'within normal limits' they are unlikely to get important extra tests performed.  ?? T4 and T5 ??

It's not much different with mental health either. The only reason I see a private psychiatrist is because my NHS GP lacked the expertise and flexibility to diagnose correctly and prescribe a toolkit that actually worked.

[CLKD]

Penguin I was lucky in that my GP realised that I was 'on the edge' - when depressed I bend over and he had seen me out walking the dog and called me in for a chat - so he arranged for a Psychiatrist to attend the house after which we worked together to find a regime which helps.

[Peana]

I can't remember where I came across this idea, some podcast I was listening to I think, however, someone made the point that as oestrogen, progesterone, etc. are natural hormones they therefore can't be patented.  Therefore pharma doesn't make the profits they want, and so have no incentive to carry out further studies.  On the flip side, antidepressants and other pharmaceuticals can be patented and therefore are of much more financial interest.

Sad, isn't it? But it seems unlikely that the studies that are needed will be carried out (if I've remembered that correctly).

[Penguin]

Penguin I was lucky in that my GP realised that I was 'on the edge' - when depressed I bend over and he had seen me out walking the dog and called me in for a chat - so he arranged for a Psychiatrist to attend the house after which we worked together to find a regime which helps.

That would have been awhile ago tho wouldn't it, I don't think NHS would have the resources to do that now. I work for a local authority and even really urgent cases don't get treated as such despite Right Care Right Person. It is very sad.

[Nas]

Some very interesting comments from Penguin, Nas, Crispy, CLKD and Sheila which I agree with.

As Crispy said, the whole area of the menopause and HRT is a complete mess and has been for years.  The NHS and the BMS are all over the place and seem to be getting themselves tied up in knots over studies and ideology - they come across as anti private healthcare. 

I wonder if the medical profession bang on about studies and guidelines incessantly in other areas of medicine?  Is so much proof/evidence needed for thyroid medication/treatment for example?

Obviously the NHS need to have some basic guidelines but they also need maximum flexibility.  Guidelines are supposed to be guidelines, not gospel.

Bottom line, the medics who are slagging off Louise Newson are probably happy to sit in front of a woman whose life is falling apart because their HRT dose is completely wrong and needs adjusting but they refuse to help them because of the NHS guidelines.  It's a disgrace.  No wonder so many women seek help privately.

This exactly!
We are not in a “ one size fits all” situation here. Where did the “ maximum 4 pumps/100mg patch guidance come from anyway? NICE?

What about younger women with premature ovarian failure? Poor absorbers, those in surgical menopause and dare I say it, those of us plunged into the depths of hell, due to cancer? (Just on the cancer front, they
(being the NHS, were quick to take my HRT away, no tapering off slowly, just an offer of any anti depressant I wanted. Then when I started sweating and flushing  profusely, proceeded to pump me full of antibiotics!!! )

This is the biggest medical catastrophe for a long time.

Indeed, guidelines are just that. The reality is, there are so many women who just don’t fall within these “ guidelines”  Crispy, myself and many other women who need more bespoke treatment, are being failed and as a result, are forced to see private specialists such as LN.

Given that women make up a huge percentage of the UK  workforce, it’s a disgrace. Crispy off work, me hanging by a thread and many others in difficult situations.

Obviously isn’t just about HRT, but even investigating non hormonal treatments, is a task and a half. Also, that documentary began with the herbal “ remedies” and how hit and miss they are.

How about a documentary on how effective £16 Menopace actually is, if HRT is meant be “ gold standard “ treatment?

Where is Davina?? 

[CLKD]

Penguin - in the 1990s. 

Davina - mayB send her a message Nas ? ;-)

Menopausal women are suddenly an issue and the governments of the day nor the NHS has any idea what is required!

[Nas]

CLKD, maybe I should!

Dear Davina,
Now that you’ve successfully put menopause on the map, please could you now fix the (existential crisis ?) otherwise known as menopause care for normal people?

Oh and if you could get Veoza fast tracked onto the NHS, I would be eternally grateful.

Reason being, I can’t really afford the £62 for 28 daily tablets, to curb my debilitating night sweats.

Many thanks.

[CLKD]

I feel a March approaching, I'll fire up the charabanc ;-)

[Nas]

 

[CLKD]

Not going to walk if it's raining, snowing, too hot, icy ............ 

I need to get onto our local Surgeries as there is nothing about menopause in the waiting rooms, if I forget, please 

[Dandelion]

CLKD, maybe I should!

Dear Davina,
Now that you’ve successfully put menopause on the map, please could you now fix the (existential crisis ?) otherwise known as menopause care for normal people?

Oh and if you could get Veoza fast tracked onto the NHS, I would be eternally grateful.

Reason being, I can’t really afford the £62 for 28 daily tablets, to curb my debilitating night sweats.

Many thanks.

What tablets are those please?
Why do you have to pay?
Evorel got rid of my night sweats but they came back so am now looking into testosterone deficiency.

[Dandelion]

Not surprised, for the reasons you mention.

My experience of menopause doctors, having paid to see about 5 different ones over the last 5 years, is that they have their own "camp" or fixed mindset. You get those like Louise Newsom who just think ESTROGEN ESTROGEN and MORE ESTROGEN and then you have others (eg Marian Gluck clinic and Lara Briden) who think Progesterone is the answer to everything. Akin to Louise Newsom I know of places promoting incredibly worrying high doses of Progesterone daily as the answer.

Incidentally I experience the same thing when it comes to women generally... people want to help and it's human nature for people to feel what worked for them will work for others. But the reality is there is no fixed answer and such high variability between women and what their bodies need. For some, Estrogen will be the answer. Many others can't tolerate it at all (there is not yet enough of this being discussed, but I imagine it will come in time).

Will be interesting to see how things pan out for Louise Newsom

That's pretty discouraging, I thought, with all the publicity, private menopause clinics would be more helpful. I can afford to have a consultation with one, and hopefully get the right hormones, I am post meno, then I hope my GP will prescribe if the private people think I need it, and will start off with a private prescription. I don't want to go to four or five.
You're right about post and peri being different, are you peri?