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[Peach8]

Is estrogen cream the only estrogen you are taking?  If so, you may want to consider patches or gel. Lack of sleep has been a big issue for me for a long time, I take promethazine, I'd prefer not to because it drys my mouth but I get 5-6 hours sleep with that rather than 3-4 without it and it's the difference between functioning and not functioning. Ear plugs and an eye mask can help disturbances.

[K45]

Promethazine is a life saver! It's the only thing that 100% works and i find it doesn't have the awful withdrawal effects like progesterone. I know exactly what you mean about it making the difference between functioning and not functioning. Barely holding it together atm but am going to take it tonight to get through tomorrow.

[Peach8]

I take it every night. Every time I try a night without it I'm awake within 3 to 4 hours and feel like a zombie all day, it's just not worth it. Still trying to find an alternative but for now I'll stick with it. I was given a suggestion recently that apparently is quite effective - each time you wake in the night you should read a book with very soft lighting until you feel sleepy again, continue this and it should get less over time. I lasted two nights and couldn't cope with the tiredness on top of the brain fog I already have but if you don't rely on the promethazine every night K45 then it might be worth a try 🤷🏼‍♀️.

[K45]

Thanks so much Peaches for the helpful suggestion. I really feel for you as it is so exhausting dealing with the insomnia and brain fog. I have found extra dose of magnesium at bed can help you cope better the next day even without enough sleep. Will start a book tonight...fingers crossed!

[Ms_london76]

So I have a weird problem where I don’t sleep or get an hour or two hours of sleep.

But feel absolutely wired in the am, I cant figure out. This has been a new things for me to sort out.

[joziel]

Yeah, that's called peri-menopause....

Systemic HRT is your best bet for fixing it. It has taken me 4 years to get levels high enough because I wasted so much time faffing around trying other things. So don't do that, would be my advice - just get on the HRT...

[K45]

I agree but there is a caveat...it depends on how you react to HRT as in perimenopause the stop start progesterone every 2 weeks means I sleep incredibly well just half the month and feel calm then it's the complete opposite horrific anxiety and insomnia. I'm at the point where I'm scared the utrogestan is dangerous for my mental health and damaging my brain. Is the answer less utrogestan or more and I don't know if the GPs even understand what this drug can do to your mind. Sorry for the very long post! 

[Peach8]

I agree but there is a caveat...it depends on how you react to HRT as in perimenopause the stop start progesterone every 2 weeks means I sleep incredibly well just half the month and feel calm then it's the complete opposite horrific anxiety and insomnia. I'm at the point where I'm scared the utrogestan is dangerous for my mental health and damaging my brain. Is the answer less utrogestan or more and I don't know if the GPs even understand what this drug can do to your mind. Sorry for the very long post! 

I too have progesterone issues. Utrogestan gave me breast pain, heartburn, nightmares and mood problems. Tried Mirena but it wouldn't stop bleeding so now I'm on Provera which isn't perfect but it's the least problematic. Progesterone has never helped me sleep. I've tried tart cherry juice melatonin, kalms, valerian, magnesium... nothing works except the promethazine which comes with it's own side effects. I did get a week of zopiclone which was fabulous but gp won't prescribe it again.  Anyway, I digress.
K45, would Mirena be a solution to your progesterone issues?

[K45]

I'm really sorry you have a rough time with progesterone too. It's horrible not knowing what to do for the best. Thanks for the suggestion- Mirena was suggested by GP but I don't feel comfortable with the idea of having this as friends have had real problems with it and can't even bear smears... it's the withdrawal from it not the progesterone itself that causes the most problems so I'm trying to use antihistamines now for the withdrawal period hopefully going forward will make this more bearable.
Zopiclone works well but not safe long term my GP said a while back. I think promethazine is probably safest as GP gave it to me specifically for sleep after surgery as I was hallucinating after 2 weeks no sleep which was terrifying! Oh the joys of perimenopause! I wish I could fast forward till it's over!!

[Peach8]

I agree! I often wonder if these symptoms will ever end. Here's hoping 🤞🤗

[Mumto3]

Hi Peach8,

I really feel for you.  I've had many episodes of insomnia since being perimenopausal.  It's a common symptom of hormone deficiency.

Pre HRT I tried melatonin, taurine, glycine, magnesium glycinate, lavender & valerian tea, meditation/yoga nidra.  These all helped to some level, some nights better than others.  Once I started HRT and my dose was optimal, I slept so much better but once my HRT dose wasn't correct again, my sleep would suffer again.  Which is where I am now unfortunately. 

What I try and do now is not worry about it.  What I find can help is going out in the daylight in the morning for at least 30 mins every day to help set the body clock and melatonin on/off setting.  I go to bed really early, so I don't feel the pressure of 'needing' to get to sleep. I mean early like 7pm.  Make sure as much light is shut out of the bedroom as possible. I turn my electric clock light off, so I can't see the time and nor clock watch too.  I take my supplements (as listed above), I relax my body down with yoga nidra or something similar (lots of free videos on YouTube or free meditation apps).  Then if I find sleep isn't coming as soon as it normally would, I simply feign sleep. I get as heavy and relaxed in my body as possible and keep my mind clear or just focus on my breath entering/leaving my body.  This allows the body to get as close to sleep as possible.  I find I can cope the next day with this, rather than fretting and getting up through the night, which makes me feel beaten up the next day. 

Hope there's something there that may help. x

[Peach8]

Hi Mumto3

Thanks for your support, it's good to know I'm not alone. My kids are still fairly young so that does influence the times I can go to bed and need to rise somewhat. I've just increased my estrogen dose so fingers crossed that helps. Thanks for your input. 😊

[joziel]

K45, you could try taking P continuously even in peri - if you are worried about breakthrough bleeding you can add in a POP like desogestrel which will keep the uterine lining very thin. (Desogestrel is approved for birth control whilst on HRT.) That way your P levels would be constant.

Or just do the P but stopping just for 3-5 days to allow a bleed, if that meant just a few nights of bad sleep?

The Mirena is a marmite thing. The vast majority of women love it. A few hate it. You can get it removed if it doesn't work for you.

[K45]

Thanks Joziel for the helpful suggestions - my GP said once I've been on sequential hrt 15 months (so next June) then changing to 25 days or continuous would be an option. If I am still struggling this much with the next withdrawal from utro I will go back and see if anything can be changed earlier. Trying to re-sync the hrt to my own cycle is what led to the worst withdrawal symptoms I've ever had this month so I feel I need to give it one more try to see if it's bearable. Thanks again for the ideas.

[joziel]

Great yes. There's no need to wait 15 months really. I couldn't tolerate sequential P because I have a history of endo and the unopposed E for half the month made me get endo symptoms back again.

So I just switched to continuous with a 3-5 day break for a bleed. I was only on HRT for a few months at that time.

I do recommend the break if you are still in peri because otherwise you get random breakthrough bleeding and then some doctors can freak and send you for ultrasounds and hysteroscopies and all that - so you can best avoid that by scheduling the bleed so no one freaks out...