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[pepperminty]

Hi ladies,
Testosterone is used to treat dogs with dry eye. I can’t find the original research I read before treating a male spaniel but in haste I found this:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8165631/

I’ve just had a T test with the NHS, the range was 0 - 3 nmol/L. Mine was 3.5, Doctor was happy and I’ll continue on one sachet a week.

Thank you,

0-3  range - according to that I am well under, so that is reassuring ! Fabulous it works for dogs!

PMxx

[laszla]

Hi ladies,
Testosterone is used to treat dogs with dry eye. I can’t find the original research I read before treating a male spaniel but in haste I found this:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8165631/

I’ve just had a T test with the NHS, the range was 0 - 3 nmol/L. Mine was 3.5, Doctor was happy and I’ll continue on one sachet a week.

Very interesting that in this case the NHS range is far less conservative than Newson. And good to know that your doc was happy with 3.5 - after an initial surge to 7 (!) post T implant, I soon went down to 3.8
and this seems ok in view of the feedback you received.

[AmandaJR]

That’s a high reading Lazla, how did you feel? Is the implant working for you?
GP was really happy with my T result, I’m having thyroid issues and she said the testosterone is probably helping me through!

[laszla]

That’s a high reading Lazla, how did you feel? Is the implant working for you?
GP was really happy with my T result, I’m having thyroid issues and she said the testosterone is probably helping me through!

Amanda, I didn't feel much of any difference between 3.8 and 7 (both achieved on my second implant), only time I perceived a difference was when I reached 2.5 after first implant following years of less than 1 on testogel: I felt physically stronger, easier to lift weights but not a major shift.
Then again I had an E implant too the second time round so it's hard to tell what is doing what.

[Wrensong]

pepperminty

My dry eye is much better I would say 70% . The NHS are now cutting down on prescribed medication for dry eyes , refusing to prescribe the more expensive drops unless "there is a medical reason! ". That is not going down the preventative route and setting up problems later down the line!   I hope that your DES continues to improve. Macci berry is also good for dry eye.

That's a great improvement for your dry eye then    I'd not heard the NHS was clamping down on prescribed meds for dry eye.  That's heartsink info & as you say, seems v shortsighted (no pun intended).  Does throw light on why Ophthalmology have sometimes said when prescribing new drops for me that they will ask my GP to prescribe "but he/she may not agree".  My condition is chronic & considered severe, on meds for it for 30+ yrs so I hope my GP surgery will continue to agree to Ophthalmology's recommendations, especially as this latest combo of meds is proving considerably more effective than any I've ever had before.  There have been longstanding supply probs though & I've had to repeatedly source privately all 3 types over the past couple of years, which is both stressful & expensive.

Thank you for the herbal recommendation  & I hope you continue to do well on T.
Wx

[pepperminty]

pepperminty

My dry eye is much better I would say 70% . The NHS are now cutting down on prescribed medication for dry eyes , refusing to prescribe the more expensive drops unless "there is a medical reason! ". That is not going down the preventative route and setting up problems later down the line!   I hope that your DES continues to improve. Macci berry is also good for dry eye.

That's a great improvement for your dry eye then    I'd not heard the NHS was clamping down on prescribed meds for dry eye.  That's heartsink info & as you say, seems v shortsighted (no pun intended).  Does throw light on why Ophthalmology have sometimes said when prescribing new drops for me that they will ask my GP to prescribe "but he/she may not agree".  My condition is chronic & considered severe, on meds for it for 30+ yrs so I hope my GP surgery will continue to agree to Ophthalmology's recommendations, especially as this latest combo of meds is proving considerably more effective than any I've ever had before.  There have been longstanding supply probs though & I've had to repeatedly source privately all 3 types over the past couple of years, which is both stressful & expensive.

Thank you for the herbal recommendation  & I hope you continue to do well on T.
Wx

Short sighted indeed  . Where is the patient person centered choice and control? Dry eye is so horrendous to have, but gets trivialised .  I still get good and bad days-but over all more manageable.  My drops are in short supply.  So they have substituted the cheaper ones! Haven't tried them yet. They tried to tell me they were similar.  Perhaps they don't realise I can read the  ingredients label?

PMxx

[Wrensong]

Where is the patient person centered choice and control?

I know, it's so frustrating & can make patients feel powerless & as if our wellbeing doesn't matter.  I hope you find the substitutes work as well for you.  In recent years I've found that several meds I need have been removed from repeat order without notifying me, inc one strength of Thyroxine  & various HRT components  .  Just missing next time I've come to request them.  V stressful to discover that & then have to make a case to get them reinstated.

Dry eye is so horrendous to have, but gets trivialised.

I think it can be hard for those who don't have it to grasp how uncomfortable it can be & there's also perhaps a lack of awareness that it can lead to more serious eye problems if not well managed.  And that the correct medication is therefore vital.  I was recently told mine has progressed to damage the cornea  & that's despite diligent use of a long series of prescription drops over 3 decades.  So it's a worry & needs to be taken seriously by those who make the decisions about what we can & cannot have.

I've also mentioned repeatedly in clinic that, as a woman without ovaries, I've found T helpful for dry eye & the Ophthalmologists have seemed interested to hear that, but then it never makes it into the clinic letter.  Again frustrating, as that knowledge might help a GP help another woman in similar circs.  I've mentioned it to GPs myself but it's not the same as having that endorsed by Ophthalmology.  I guess there's reticence because as we said before there's not enough definitive research on the connection between dry eye & androgen deficiency.
Wx

[buffy26]

Hi Ladies
 I have been having bloods re-checked, estrogen has dropped down to 261. The last time I had a conversation with the doc she said your testosterone levels are a bit on the low side but as you are not 'active' we wont focus on this as its not your issue. `It has remained this result each time I have a test done. I feel rubbish, and when I read how some of you have perked up by having the boost its got me thinking, how low is too low. I interpret this as a bit too far out of range, am I correct and if so, surely it should be considered a culprit? TBH I am always focussing on estrogen when I maybe need more of a balance all round

Anyone on here has more knowledge that could throw some light would be great, so I can speak with conviction when I see my GP
Thanks 
<0.7 nmol/L
range 0-2.8 nmol/L
Sex hormone binding globulin 34 (range 22-142)

[pepperminty]

Where is the patient person centered choice and control?

I know, it's so frustrating & can make patients feel powerless & as if our wellbeing doesn't matter.  I hope you find the substitutes work as well for you.  In recent years I've found that several meds I need have been removed from repeat order without notifying me, inc one strength of Thyroxine  & various HRT components  .  Just missing next time I've come to request them.  V stressful to discover that & then have to make a case to get them reinstated.

Dry eye is so horrendous to have, but gets trivialised.

I think it can be hard for those who don't have it to grasp how uncomfortable it can be & there's also perhaps a lack of awareness that it can lead to more serious eye problems if not well managed.  And that the correct medication is therefore vital.  I was recently told mine has progressed to damage the cornea  & that's despite diligent use of a long series of prescription drops over 3 decades.  So it's a worry & needs to be taken seriously by those who make the decisions about what we can & cannot have.

I've also mentioned repeatedly in clinic that, as a woman without ovaries, I've found T helpful for dry eye & the Ophthalmologists have seemed interested to hear that, but then it never makes it into the clinic letter.  Again frustrating, as that knowledge might help a GP help another woman in similar circs.  I've mentioned it to GPs myself but it's not the same as having that endorsed by Ophthalmology.  I guess there's reticence because as we said before there's not enough definitive research on the connection between dry eye & androgen deficiency.
Wx

Hi Wrensong,

the medication being removed happened to me this week. I went to order the repeat and it had gone! I looked on my patient record and it said I requested it be removed! And they reduced my vagifem. So i wrote and email explaining. They sent a reply back that i required a meds review or an appointment. I was only requesting what I had before. So 3 phone calls later i then got a text to call up again. I explained again that I/ they  had confirmation from the meno specialist that this was my medical requirements .  The receptionist was quite sympathetic and said she would sort. She found the letter from the consultant, but it still has not been sorted. I am very stressed about it. It is their mistake . I will have to call up next week again. . Or my husband will as I feel that women do get rather gas lighted still these days and not taken seriously. If men required " penis " estrogen they would be able to request it by the bucket load!

I do hope the damage to your corneas do not get any worse . It must be so uncomfortable.

PMXX

[Wrensong]

Pepperminty

She found the letter from the consultant, but it still has not been sorted. I am very stressed about it. It is their mistake . I will have to call up next week again. .

I'm sorry to know this.  It is very stressful when we have had meds we rely on & suddenly something goes wrong, they disappear from repeat order & it takes considerable effort on the patient's part to get them reauthorised.  I think GP surgeries are simply so busy & with various different locums helping out in the absence of enough permanent staff, long gone are the days of continuity of care, so that seemingly mistakes get made more often.

Or my husband will as I feel that women do get rather gas lighted still these days and not taken seriously. If men required " penis " estrogen they would be able to request it by the bucket load!

Yes, regrettably there does still too often seem to be disparity in the way the sexes are treated.  We each needed physio a couple of years ago & one of the exercises I was given caused an injury unrelated to the condition I'd been referred for, resulting in much restricted ability to use the affected joint & visible swelling.  It took more than a year to heal & in fact still recurs if I put any strain on the joint.  Anyway, I reported what had happened to the physio at next session & he examined the joint & agreed it was swollen but said this could not be due to the exercise he'd prescribed & I was to continue doing it  .   This made me doubt my own judgement & I persevered as I was told, but not for long as the new injury worsened.  One of OH's exercises caused him pain so he stopped it & reported back to his physio . . . who, yeah you guessed -  said he'd been right to discontinue & must not attempt it again!  Nuff said.

I hope you manage to get the meds sorted quickly now & with minimal further stress.

Thanks for the good wishes about the dry eye.  There had apparently been some improvement at last appointment on the new drops combo so I'm hopeful it could reverse the damage as I've read this is possible.

Sorry, we seem to have gone off piste but somtimes it helps to have a little solidarity on something tangential 
Wx

[pepperminty]

Hi Wrensong,

Indeed a little " Off Piste" but as you say it is lovely having a bit of solidarity and understanding as menopause can be a very lonely and isolating experience at times.

Yep men do get taken far more seriously. I have had physiotherapy recently, I stopped the exercises as like you they hurt - I recovered without them. I suspect that general exercises are not tailored to menopausal women- we had different needs.

I learnt recently that  all  medication was ONLY tested on  men until recently and therefore dosages are tailored for men  ( body size physiology etc )and not for women still.

 I did tell the physio that I was on T and that it had helped with my stamina and muscle strength, ( I threw in the eyes info also !). It was a revelation to him that women produce T. There appears to be a lack of professional curiosity across the board . 

PMxx

[Wrensong]

Pepperminty

I suspect that general exercises are not tailored to menopausal women

My physio was a strapping, big, muscular mid-20's-ish bloke (there is a God  ) & I'm a small, skinny 60-ish woman, a decade+ postmenopause.  So his chances of getting what it's like for us were stacked against him    I had hoped for a middle aged woman who'd have some chance of knowing what it's like at our stage of life, but he was the one with expertise in what I was referred for.  Venus & Mars!

I learnt recently that  all  medication was ONLY tested on  men until recently and therefore dosages are tailored for men  ( body size physiology etc )and not for women still

Yes, I remember well the sinking feeling I had when I discovered that some years ago. 

I did tell the physio that I was on T and that it had helped with my stamina and muscle strength, ( I threw in the eyes info also !).

Well done you!

It was a revelation to him that women produce T. There appears to be a lack of professional curiosity across the board.

Yes, agreed & it's so frustrating.
Wx

[pepperminty]

Wrensong,

Lets hope the next generation of women get a better deal!

PMxx