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[joziel]

Elaine, what dose of Oestrogel are you on - and have you had bloods done on that dose?

When you say it's the progesterone causing the problem, how do you know that (if you are taking it every day)? Have you tried stopping the progesterone to see?

Too high estrogen dosages (for you) can cause insomnia and just feeling wired and anxious. Some women do get that from progesterone, but it's much less common.

If it is the utrogestan causing that and you have endo, you can try other synthetic progestins which you might get along better with. Norethisterone and desogestrel for eg, are both systemic progestins. You could also try a combined patch which has another synthetic progestin in it.

It's a bit premature for people to be suggesting powerful meds like anti-depressants etc IMO. The objective has to be to help people get their HRT sorted so they have no symptoms and don't need all these meds women used to need prior to HRT...

[sheila99]

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I also found it made me feel calmer, whereas oestrogen only makes me feel rather anxious.

Too much as well as too little oestrogen can give you anxiety. Have you tried lowering the dose a little?

[Elaine90]

Hi thanks for all the replies

I'm going to have a review in a month and will bring up the possibility of trying femostan then if that fails will ask GP about low dose amitriptyline or similar.
sheila99 - I agree too high or too low is bad, but found any amount of oestrogen when taken on it's own causes anxiety, it's ok with testosterone though (probably because the oophorectomy left my T levels too low in relation to E, in natural menopause it's usually the other way around)

The HRT has helped the long term physical deterioration cause by the surgery, but every day since starting it, I'm firefighting symptoms and wondering have I taken too much, too little, the wrong ratios...it doesn't help that I'm oversensitive to small changes and that the different products (oestrogel, testogel, Utrogestan) have different durations, so they go out of balance. And if I try to stop or cut back, I get withdrawal symptoms. All in all, not great.

[Elaine90]

Joziel thanks for the reply.

It's a long story as I've been trying to figure this out for 10 months, essentially:

Oestrogel 2 pumps (built up slowly over a number of weeks) I've had bloods done and on oestrogen only I could sleep, but after a couple of months started to get endo pains.

The first time I took Utrogestan 100mg, I felt wide awake all night, not stressed, just couldn't sleep the entire night.
Tried various methods and doses (slowly, methodically, over a number of months) - in the morning; vaginally; half a capsule; a quarter of a capsule; with extra oestrogen.
I found that the less Utro I take, the better my sleep is, but that I get withdrawal symptoms (like PMS) as it not enough to reach a steady state. Maybe it shouldn't happen, but it does, I must be very sensitive to fluctuating levels.

Discussed with the gynae who suggested Evorel Conti (with Norethisterone) - this felt great, but also caused insomnia and my hair started to fall out.

The testogel also causes insomnia if I take it too late in the day or have too much. I'm OK with around 1/8th sachet first thing in the morning, that seems to build up over time, so sometimes have to cut back.

[zippy75]

Background- definitive surgery due to severe endometriosis, 2016 (hysterectomy, oophorectomy, bowel resection...). No HRT. Developed several health problems due to long term hormone deficiency. Saw a private gynae and was prescribed Oestrogel with Utrogestan and Testogel (also tried evorel conti.)
In combination, they have helped in many ways - stronger, more energetic, more confident, no more dry eyes and so on. Without the HRT I felt about 90. But, it causes terrible insomnia. 2 to 3 hours sleep at most. Sometimes none at all. I just feel wide awake.
Oestrogel alone is no use as it makes me more anxious and makes my dry eyes worse, the progesterone and testosterone are the most useful for energy, mood, eyes, but are the ones messing with my sleep cycle.
Over the past 10 months, I have tried different doses, different timings, different methods of application, to no avail.
The gynae says that tablets cause more side effects than the trans-dermals, but I can't continue like this.

I was wondering if any of you had tried tablets after gels/patches and if so, what did you use and did it work out for you?

Thanks

[zippy75]

I had the same , everything gave me insomnia , tried all the doses and didn’t sleep for a year maybe,nothing worked! Took me a year to work out it’s down to chemical sensitivity in the gels and glue in the patches , my body was reacting to the chemicals, as soon as I took the estrogen pill BOOM asleep every time !
Maybe that’s your issue too .

[joziel]

I'd think that is to do with absorption problems zippy. Anytime you are applying something to the skin you're relying on it actually being absorbed. The pill gets past all that, but does have drawbacks like increasing risk of blood clots and increasing estrone (the 'bad' inflammatory estrogen).

[Gnatty]

Have you tried patches apart from the Conti? An oestrogen only patch might keep your oestrogen levels more consistent which might help with the insomnia.