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Author Topic: Started testosterone and just got 3 month blood test results  (Read 2751 times)

Katymac

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Started testosterone and just got 3 month blood test results
« on: November 16, 2023, 12:53:14 PM »

I have got to "speak to the doctor"

Which is fine but I need to know what to say

I have a free androgen result of


Free androgen index 6.74 [0.187 - 3.63]; Female Free Androgen Index Ref Range
20-49 years: 0.297-5.62%
>= 50 years: 0.187-3.63%; Above high reference limit

And

Serum sex hormone binding globulin level 24.2 nmol/L [27.1 - 128.0]; SHBG ref range (nmol/L):
20-49 yrs: 32.4-128
>50 yrs: 27.1-128
SHBG female reference range is for non-pregnant
patients.; Below low reference limit

And

Serum testosterone level 1.63 nmol/L [0.101 - 1.42]; Female Testosterone Reference Range
20-49 years: 0.290-1.67 nmol/L
>= 50 years: 0.101-1.42 nmol/L; Above high reference limit

(Plus a dodgy thyroid)

Should push to see a specialist ( the one at the local hospital doesn't believe in testosterone)

Why can't it be easy
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Katymac

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Re: Started testosterone and just got 3 month blood test results
« Reply #1 on: November 16, 2023, 01:11:36 PM »

I guess i need to know if I should stop testosterone or reduce it? 

but reading further the thyroid might be relevant
 Serum TSH level 5.61 mIU/L [0.27 - 4.2]; Above high reference limit
Serum free T4 level 14.5 pmol/L [12.0 - 22.0]
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Katymac

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Re: Started testosterone and just got 3 month blood test results
« Reply #2 on: November 17, 2023, 07:41:03 PM »

Oh god should I stop taking it or reduce it?
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Hurdity

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Re: Started testosterone and just got 3 month blood test results
« Reply #3 on: November 18, 2023, 10:03:30 AM »

Hi Katymac - your post got missed.

The relationship between total T, SHBG and FAI seems to be complex and not as straightforward as first predsented when T replacement first became more widespread. The British Menopause Society has changed its view.

Their updated guidance on T replacement says this:

"What should be measured?

• Total testosterone levels provide a more accurate representation of therapeutic response than
free testosterone, or the calculated Free Androgen Index (FAI).
• Free testosterone assays are not recommended, as correlation with biological activity of free
testosterone has not been confirmed.
• Recent evidence suggests that not only free, but also some protein bound testosterone may
be bioavailable, and also that not all free testosterone is biologically active.
• Assessment of the proportion of total testosterone binding to SHBG, albumin and other
proteins e.g. by FAI may not give an accurate reflection of testosterone which is available to
activate testosterone receptors and, by extrapolation, influence clinical response.
• In day-to-day practice, assessment of clinical response to testosterone supplementation in
women i.e. HSDD benefits and/or androgenic adverse effects e.g. excess hair growth, acne,
should be of primary importance, supported by data for total testosterone, measured by
liquid chromatography-mass spectrometry, in preference to FAI or free testosterone.
• The aim should be to achieve total testosterone levels within the normal physiological range
for women using the laboratory reference range where the test is carried out.
• In certain circumstances, SHBG levels may be helpful as additional supportive information:
— Where SHBG levels are high e.g. due to high dose oral estrogen therapy, especially
conjugated estrogens. This may explain lack of therapeutic response to physiological
testosterone replacement, despite normal total testosterone levels.
— Conversely, when SHBG levels are very low. This may explain why androgenic adverse effects
with testosterone replacement have occurred, despite normal total testosterone levels.
"

So yes your total T is a little above the ref range but only marginally so, and the reason for your high FAI is due to low SHBG. It's all very complex.

Presumably your medical practitioner ordered these blood tests as part of monitoring T replacement? Is this private or NHS? What do the say about the results?

My questions would be what T do you use and how often do you take it?

When and where was the blood drawn from, in relation to when and where you take your T? This can have a bearing on blood result.

As it is only marginally above the ref range I would ask your medical practitioner to do another one ( and depending on your answer to when and where the blood was taken - maybe alter when/where the blood tests was taken).

What about symptoms and side effects. How long have you been taking it, and is it working for you? What other HRT are you on?

As for the thyroid - that (TSH) is definitely above the official range and some authorities believe that thyroid malfunction should be treated when TSH is even at a lower level than the official upper level. Are you currently taking medication for underactive thyroid? I'm not an expert on this but there is definitely an interaction between menopausal hormonal changes and thyroid function. Regarding this aspect I suggest you start another post with the heading that mentions thyroid (and maybe menopause too) so that others who are knowledgeable on this might see it. Wrensong is the member who has lots of knowledge and experience....

Hurdity x
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Katymac

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Re: Started testosterone and just got 3 month blood test results
« Reply #4 on: November 18, 2023, 10:26:26 AM »

Aw thanks so much Hurdity

I put my gel on my upper legs and they took my blood from the arm - at 7:55 in the morning

The private consultants asked my gp to test 3 months after I started and that she thought my thyroid aslo needed checking; but she has now retired

I have testosterone gel 16.2 mg/g and I use 1/3rd of a pump a day in the evening - 75 evoral patches and 5mg norethisterone (well I only take half)

I'm not on any thyroid medication and I have had several out of range ones but the gaps between them are apparently too wide

I'll start another thread when I get home and try to put more details in
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Hurdity

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Re: Started testosterone and just got 3 month blood test results
« Reply #5 on: November 18, 2023, 08:46:05 PM »

Hi Katymac

At first sight that testosterone dose could well be too high. Is this what the GP or private consultant prescribed?

If you look at the product info here:
https://www.medicines.org.uk/emc/product/8919/smpc#gref

"2. Qualitative and quantitative composition

One gram of gel contains 16.2 mg testosterone. One pump actuation delivers 1.25 g of gel containing 20.25 mg of testosterone.

Excipients with known effect: Ethanol.

For the full list of excipients, see section 6.1."


The BMS recommend a dose of 5 mg per day - but I don't think this is based on research, just I think that the dose should be 1/10th that prescribed to men presumably because on average we have 1/10th the level of T that men do? (Sorry haven't looked this up recently)

From BMS:
"Most testosterone products are off label/license for female usage and may not always be available.
The regulatory advice regarding use of compounded medications advises against their use unless
an equivalent alternative is not available. In most countries and settings there are licensed male
testosterone preparations that can be down titrated to female doses (typically 1/10th).
"

However although they say to start at this dose - I for one started at a much lower dose. OK we all absorb differently and have different hormonal requirements but with T replacement I would always want to err on the conservative side. It's not like oestrogen - we want to maintain the T:O ratio that keeps us female and don;t want to become T dominant and risk androgenic side effects.

Well I know I'm older than most, but even in 2015 when I was a youthful 62 year old (!!) I still used a lower dose of T. For example my (now discontinued) Testogel 1% sachets which, like Testim contained 50 mg T, were intended to last 10 days. I would say using a pea-sized blob mine probably last 3 weeks - so more like 2.5 mg T that I am applying and the effects are everything they could be. Not sure what would happen if I took more - as my levels haven't been measured recently.

I don't know what a third of a pump of your Testogel looks like and how you dispense it, but if it's bigger than a normal pea-sized blob then I would suggest trying to reduce to that but do talk to your practitioner as they should be flagging this up (ie your slightly high T levels). An alternative would be the Testogel sachets which are the same concentration and easier to squeeze out a small blob and put a paper clip over it.  I must emphasise that even that ie a pea-sized blob of testogel from the pump pack will give you more T than I used over the years -  because mine was/is 1%.

You haven't said whether the T you are taking has alleviated the symptoms you were seeking to relieve, or whether you have had any side effects such as increased hairiness, deeper voice, enlarged clitoris etc though I doubt this would happen with only marginally above the ref range for your age, if you're over 50?

In any case actually one could argue that the ref range for over 50 is unrealistic because isn't the whole point that T is falling as we age and can be associated with undesirable symptoms, so T replacement is intended to boost that? If that is the case then perhaps the ref range for under 50 is more applicable (if one is replacing T) - if you see what I mean.

Even so it would be at the upper end and sensible perhaps to reduce a little without compromising your symptoms?

The other thing is, that I understand measurement of T in the way it is done, is unreliable for women as values are at the lower end of the range and more inaccurate - because the test is designed for the much higher T levels found in men, so subtle differences in our levels are not being picked up.

Hope this helps :)

Hurdity x
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Katymac

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Re: Started testosterone and just got 3 month blood test results
« Reply #6 on: November 18, 2023, 10:27:50 PM »

I put the pump - which is supposedly 1.25g of gel with 20.25mg of testosterone - into a syringe then split it over 3 days

On your calculations I should split it by 4 maybe?
Which is easy enough to do with the measurements on the syringe

My brain fog/confusion/memory is pretty bad but my daughter thinks it's better than it was - I'm a little more in control

My sex drive has improved but no organisation (sorry tmi) which is somewhat disappointing

My joint pain fluctuates so much and tbh i can't remember if testosterone affects that

The nurse practioner rang me as I made a fuss and says she isn't that worried about the numbers as long as I'm getting no side effects but I still need to talk to the gp

It's been 6 years since my ovaries came out and there has been a definite down turn over the last couple of years
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Katymac

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Re: Started testosterone and just got 3 month blood test results
« Reply #7 on: November 20, 2023, 10:09:24 AM »

I started the other post - I think I wrote what you wanted in the title
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Hurdity

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Re: Started testosterone and just got 3 month blood test results
« Reply #8 on: November 21, 2023, 09:12:28 AM »

Hi Katymac - If you've had your ovaries removed then I think that's a whole different scenario and very different from the rest of us who are just experiencing an age related decline in testosterone with associated symptoms. I don't know how this might affect blood levels etc.

You didn't say how long you've been taking T? The full effects can take several months to work - when I was first put on it, the consultants said 4-5 months so if your "organisation" (I know what you meant there  ::) ) has not returned, then maybe it will in due course?

I would definitely seek the opinion of a menopause specialist - your GP - to see if if s/he agrees with the nurse practitioner.

If they are not worried then hopefully they will perhaps order another blood test say in 3 months time to see if the levels are still the same but also your idea about splitting the dose into 4 days might be preferable - ans you could suggest that to the GP maybe - though again I must emphasise that the situation is different in your case as you have no ovaries. Would be interested to hear other views on this?

Hurdity x
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Gnatty

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Re: Started testosterone and just got 3 month blood test results
« Reply #9 on: November 21, 2023, 09:29:23 AM »

Just quickly, regarding testosterone for those of us with no ovaries, I haven't really noticed many of us needing much more than the standard dose, going by the Surgical Meno Group I belong to. If you are having no unwanted side effects from the Testosterone I wouldn't worry too much about those levels. But keep an eye. The only thing I wonder about is whether you are quite optimising your oestrogen needs? I think you mentioned elsewhere you were quite slim which means there won't be much oestrogen stored of your own. So maybe you have room to try an increase there. Low mood is often associated with low oestrogen. And of course joint ache.
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Katymac

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Re: Started testosterone and just got 3 month blood test results
« Reply #10 on: November 21, 2023, 05:45:07 PM »

Thanks to both of you I'm starting to understand I think

I'll see what the gp says tomorrow if I don't spend it arguing about thyroid - I may have to make a 2nd appt
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Katymac

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Re: Started testosterone and just got 3 month blood test results
« Reply #11 on: November 21, 2023, 10:05:16 PM »

I've been looking back through my diary and I am definitely worse since my hrt was changed in the summer

I was on evoral conri now I'm on evoral 75 and norethisterone & the testosterone

I'm pinning my problems on thyroid and maybe testosterone (but despite spelling mistakes things are much better there)

So maybe the problem i
s the move from patch to patch & tablet
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Katymac

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Re: Started testosterone and just got 3 month blood test results
« Reply #12 on: November 22, 2023, 05:32:20 AM »

And slim isn't really the word

I have super skinny arms and legs and bum and a huge belly!

I've lost so much weight on my bumper and gained it on my belly no tailored trousers I own fit me - they are short at the front and drag along the floor at the back

And when they fitted perfectly for 20 odd years, before during (up to about 5 months) and after pregnancy and even during my heaviest time it's odd for them to not fit!
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