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[joziel]

I saw a big improvement when I got to 8 pumps and a slightly smaller improvement at 9 pumps. Not sure 10 pumps has done anything. I'd like to check my bloods again to see where those are at and whether I'm absorbing much more. That might help me decide about switching products too. But I want to do a venous sample so I'm waiting till my next thyroid bloods are done and will get them both done at the same time...

[Turkish delight]

I saw a big improvement when I got to 8 pumps and a slightly smaller improvement at 9 pumps. Not sure 10 pumps has done anything. I'd like to check my bloods again to see where those are at and whether I'm absorbing much more. That might help me decide about switching products too. But I want to do a venous sample so I'm waiting till my next thyroid bloods are done and will get them both done at the same time...

That's really good then, glad you have seen some progress, maybe you won't need to switch after all.

TD

[RebJT]

Hiya

Day 3 of 100 Evorel, doing OK!  Makes me realise how very much in the doldrums I've been for months, it's like a creeping cheerfulness coming back and a bit of va va voom!

Re gel, I dunno whether this will help.  My sis in law had a total hysterectomy in her early 40s (lots of kids, botched caesarians and adhesions) - had a torrid time.  After total mismanagement by NHS of HRT post surgery, she went to see Nick Pannay.  At first he was totally up for just upping the gel til she felt better as she was a poor absorber (this is before they changed it, obviously) - she got to 8 pumps but her blood levels were still not up in the range and she was still hugely symptomatic.  He said, at a certain point with gel, you get to a dose where your body just can't absorb any more, your cell receptors are just saturated.  He switched her to estradot 100, and she's finally settled on 2 x 100 estradot changed a day early and is doing great.

I don't know enough science, but does seem to make sense with gel spread over a massive area, that it just gets to a point where you can't uptake any more?  I also notice that the BMS have rebuked Newsom (indirectly) with this statement - not saying it applies to our situation, but interesting that more isn't always better https://thebms.org.uk/2023/09/tachyphylaxis-with-hrt/

I shared your fears about instability, but all told it's been about a month of faffing, I feel significantly better, not ideal but the contrast in how I feel now, I realise it's been a slow slide with oestrogel without even really noticing.  Biggest change according to my fit bit is deep sleep, and my skin looks loads and loads better, and weirdly my histamine response is better (I have oestrogen mediated mast cell activation, loads of fun!) - which I'm assuming might be the 24 hr steady dose.

Reb
x

[Abc123]

I just wanted to thank you all for this thread. I started on oestrogel In January then was given Oestrodose. My mood and fatigue plummeted at the same time. I thought  it was the utrogestan I'd started at the same time but as time went on and I wasn't better during off P times (and changed to pv).

Didn't consider the gel until my oestrogen came back lower than we'd hope it would be. So my GP has sent Sandrena to the pharmacy today and we're hoping my levels will come up.

So thanks very much for all your sharing!

[RebJT]

Hey

You're welcome!  Glad you found us, I think lots of women are really struggling and given the max licensed dose is 4 pumps, some women must be really suffering. 

Lots of women find Sandrena to be quite potent - so if you can stand it, I'd err on the side of caution when starting and gradually work your way up to your sweet spot.  I was one of the unlucky ones that it made me really jittery and revved up, but I'm doing fine so far on a patch.  Others have found splitting the dose morning and evening with sandrena works better.

Please post your results if you get any further tests, and if you have a wobble, come back and we'll hold your hand, it's been a relief to not be on my own with all of this too.

Reb
x

[Abc123]

Thanks Reb, yes I saw your struggle with Sandrena. I used to be on patches, 75 oestrogen, Evorel, but I became allergic to the adhesive. Before my allergy I had one month of oestrodot patches and I didn't have a problem with that month. I saw you'd compared them in how they'd made you feel so I'm hoping I'll be OK 🤞🤞

I'm thinking of starting on 1g for a few days before going to the prescribed 1.5g as I too was worried it may be a shock to the system if I've either jot been absorbing well or there's not even much active ingredient in the gel, but totally appreciate the warning!

I'll definitely keep updated especially if I have more bloods done. I forgot to ask about that with gp today.

I hope the Evorel 100 keeps doing the trick for you.

[joziel]

Hmm, I don't know why we'd stop absorbing due to cell receptors or whatever. I mean, I can understand that if we are applying the gel over the same area so it's double thickness either at once or putting the evening dose over the morning dose - but I apply each pump to its own area. So I don't see how cell receptors can stop absorption. I can see where the skin is wet from the previous pump and make sure to apply next to that pump...

I was on patches (Estrodot) to start with but got to 75 and realised I wasn't absorbing very well so then switched to gel. Now it looks like I don't absorb anything very well transdermally.

I haven't actually tested serum estradiol since 6 pumps of gel, when it was 334pmol or something. So I should see where I am.... I'm not even bleeding when I stop the utrogestan now, so I don't think it's too much....

As for "Tachyphylaxis", my serum estrogen has never been higher than that 334pmol when I've tested during my period, so that is what I'm getting from HRT. At the moment I'm not having periods because going continuous with the utrogestan and increasing the estrogen has stopped my own cycles I think, so I'm not sure what will happen the next time I test...  And I hate the BMS, I think they are an alarmist converservative backwards-dragging organisation and we would still be stuck listening to the WHI study in their version of things.

[Abc123]

May I ask the help of those of you using half sachets of Sandrena please?

How on earth are you managing to guess half a sachet? I thought I'd done it using a paperclip, but when I squeezed the other *half* out to check, I was way out!  I'm currently discarding the other half as I've found nothing official that mentions either it being ok to use or not use the following day. But it seems a faff to squeeze it all out, divide in two then discard one half.

I feel I'm missing something obvious! Thanks muchly!

Once I know if the roughly 1.5mg is enough, I'll ask for both sizes from GP so it's more accurate.

[chopsuey]

Never used Sandrena, so I don't know if there is a way to divide it in the sachet but you could always weigh it on some jewellery scales, like some of us now do with Oestrogel. You can get them for around a tenner and saves wasting the gel.

[Tynkabelle]

Hi Abc123

I only experimented with half a sachet for a few days while I was working out my reaction to Sandrena - I ended up just going with 2x 1mg sachets a day and works for me.

For me it was guess work, there is not a lot in the sachet anyway and would squeeze a little bit out and then add abit and go, that will do, stored ok as used the next morning and then I would see if there was either more/less the next day!

Personally felt it would be a faff sticking to a half measure long term so decided to either go up or down and as mentioned I went up in the end - hope you settle on something that suits you 👍

[Abc123]

Thanks chopsuey and Tynkabelle! I forgot I have a jewellery scale so will give that a go. I think I'm going to need to increase to 2 sachets anyway as it doesn't feel like quite enough currently. I want to give it a chance at 1.5 for at least a week or so though to be sure what I think is needing more, actually is.

Thanks again!

[joziel]

If I'm on 11 pumps of Oestrogel    how many sachets of Sandrena is that going to be...?!

And are people putting the Sandrena on all in the AM or splitting AM and PM?

[Banjo1973]

Hi Joziel,.
I would not use your new oestrogel dose for equivalents. I would use the dose you were happy on from old Oestrogel.

I was very settled on 3 pumps of old Oestrogel (moved to 6/7 pumps of new oestrogel but still didn't feel good)

I tried the NHS equivalent dose for 3 pumps which is 1.5mg of Sandrena but found it wasn't enough so use 2mg.

I do have to split the dose with Sandrena (unlike Oestrogel)

Good luck

[joziel]

Thanks but I wasn't on Oestrogel with the old version, so I've no idea if my issues are due to the change in the gel or just me not absorbing well transdermally. (I suspect the latter as I didn't absorb patches well either.)

So I can't really go by that.

So - you were on old Oestrogel 3 pumps and that = 2mg sachet of Sandrena?

At that rate I'll be on 4x 2mg sachets/day    It's all going to be a bit of a guessing game anyway I think. I want to get bloods done at 11/12 pumps of gel first, just for comparison....

[Banjo1973]

I don't think you should be on anywhere near that amount of Sandrena!!!

11 pumps of the new stuff is probably more like 4/5 pumps of the old. If you switch to Sandrena I would start with 3 or 4 sachets and see how you go.