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[Hurdity]

Hi Angela H - exactly!!! Very well said.

The "oestrogen dominance" lobby - and I explained what I meant that earlier in this thread - so the lobby that wants to sell progesterone cream, lozenges or whatever - will have us all believe that there IS  magic ratio for well being - and logically -  how can this be true? As I explained and you reiterated - we experience different ratios throughout our reproductive life, depending on what is happening - be it pregnancy, menstrual cycle or  menopause.

Estrogen dominance means estrogen and progesterone are out of balance. Personally I can see how it works in reproductive age and during peri, when both hormones play the main role as reproductive hormones. But when it comes to menopause and post I honesty can’t see how imbalance may look like. What sort of balance is needed between estrogen and progesterone if the body doesn’t need progesterone at all? The main role of progesterone in the body to prepare lining of uterus for pregnancy and maintain early stage of it.  In menopause and post we use it just to protect uterus, but not for the natural original use of it. So in this case I would rather talk about overdose of oestrogen than about imbalance between two hormones. But this is just my own thoughts, it is not necessarily true.

I believe sore, swollen and tender boobs can be due to high oestrogen, I have the same symptoms on 2 pumps of gel, 1 pump doesn’t give me those symptoms.

Yes it is the high oestrogen spikes in peri-menopause that I was talking about in my post too (I think - I haven't looked back!) - which is a completely different issue from the issue of a ratio. When you say they are just your thoughts - they are my thoughts too - but based on logic and what actually happens in our bodies, ie taking the theory to its logical conclusion and pointing out the flaws. The other idea has no evidence to support it - though if someone can show me that it does, with good evidence, I will change my view.

Hurdity x

[CrispyChick]

I actually think we're all saying the same things Hurdity. It is my peri estrogen spikes that are horrific for me.

That is 100% my problem. Proven by the fact cerazette has currently stopped all of those symptoms. Bliss - I wish. Cerazette unfortunately makes me a grumpy bear with migraines!

So yes, who cares what we call it. But progesterone alone can help as it can help tame the estrogen spikes. Especially if one has very low progesterone through anovulation.

It is not just a made up theory by those trying to sell progesterone cream, lozenges or whatever. Many UK bhrt clinics recognise it - they also sell estrogen creams and lozenges - if it wasn't a thing, they'd sell everyone estrogen too! Many will also treat you with utrogestan, if you can tolerate it.

As I said earlier, low progesterone is a real thing and a real problem - as cyclogest is licenced for severe pms.
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The issue we have here in the UK is the NHS do not recognise these estrogen spikes ...instead suggesting you take even more estrogen. That can be pure hell for us.

I've lost a lot of time due to this ignorance and I'm so happy us ladies can share our experience of estrogen dominance (or spikes if that's what you want to call it).

Personally, I think the term is quite apt as when I am experiencing the poison, it is because my estrogen is dominating in my body and not balanced with progesterone.

[AngelaH]

Hi Angela H - exactly!!! Very well said.

The "oestrogen dominance" lobby - and I explained what I meant that earlier in this thread - so the lobby that wants to sell progesterone cream, lozenges or whatever - will have us all believe that there IS  magic ratio for well being - and logically -  how can this be true? As I explained and you reiterated - we experience different ratios throughout our reproductive life, depending on what is happening - be it pregnancy, menstrual cycle or  menopause.

Hello Hurdity,

There is something else apart from that. If we look at reproductive age we all agree that all sex hormones constantly fluctuate in ours bodies, but in different bodies they are fluctuate differently. This is why some of us always had longer and heavier periods than others, had acne on their faces, probably the level of their estrogen was fine, but the level of progesterone was slightly lower than it should be. So it’s not just about spikes of estrogen, this is about condition, which can be going permanently in the body, it looks like estrogen is always dominant and progesterone always seems to be weaker. I started my periods at the age of 10, it wasn’t even periods it was something like constantly dripping from me, it could take months and months until it stopped. In a couple of years they stabilised, but they were heavy all my reproductive life and never shorter than 7-8 days. I think my progesterone was always to weak to make my periods lighter and shorter. I don’t know what exactly was the reason for that, low level of production by my body? Or there was something in my body, which was killing progesterone? So in this case can we consider me as an estrogen dominated person?

[AngelaH]

It is my peri estrogen spikes that are horrific for me.

As far as I know in peri progesterone always drops first, for some women it doesn’t create any problems, but for others it can turn to a horrible nightmare.

[joziel]

The theory with estrogen fluctuation and more estrogen is that taking more estrogen so you have a higher level from exogenous estrogen is supposed to make your own body's fluctuations a bit irrelevant - they will be minor by comparison... No idea if this theory is true but that's the thinking for giving more estrogen when there are fluctuations in peri (according to my Newson dr).

[Scampidoodle]

This is interesting joziel, so taking oestrogen would help?

[joziel]

Yes, that's the theory. It might be why relatively high doses of estrogen are often needed in peri, compared to post-meno. So your own fluctuations are like a drop in the ocean...