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[photo_jenny]

Hi

I have been on a combination of the Mirena coil and Oestrogen tablets since 2016, which had really been helping with my symptoms. In particular it had eliminated my night sweats, which were copious, and lessened my anxiety.

I have a long history of mood disorder(s) - I have been hospitalised several times with severe depression (in the 90s), and take a regime of medication for that which works most of the time. My mental health took a big hit in 2020 when I lost my dad suddenly to Covid. I did not deal with this at the time - I am a 'frontline' worker and worked throughout lockdown. Instead I supressed it all, causing a world of alternative issues (panic, anxiety). Long story short, I sought help and worked with a therapist to get me back to a 'good place' (as they say). Then, my brain/mind/who knows clearly decided that now I was OK again I could start grieving. Great. So that has been going on which is pretty horrible but I recognise that it's necessary.

Two weeks ago I utterly crashed. I felt like I had been picked up and transported back in time to my really dark days - I was in a constant state of total panic, I felt suicidal ... it was horrific. Then I realised that I had not got my repeat Oestrogen prescription and had been without it probably for 10 days. The reason I am using the Mirena coil and not taking Progesterone tablets is that it can have a detrimental effect on mood, and it was decided that this would be the best option for me. It does, however, mean that all my body has been receiving is Progesterone for all that time.

Internet search results seem to suggest that going cold turkey is a Bad Idea, and that symptoms can reappear with a vengeance. I suppose what I am hoping for is reassurance that this is a thing, and a factor in why I having been feeling so desperate (I realise that it's probably not the only one). I was seriously considering calling the Samaritans at one point, it was that bad. That has not historically been something I have ever done.

Needless to say I have sorted my prescription and started taking the tablets again 4 days ago. I have also booked an appointment with my GP next week to talk it through. I'm still feeling pretty grim, though.

Any input would be gratefully accepted. I a 56 and still in perimenopause.

Thanks in advance.

[CLKD]

WHOA! don't panic.  How was your regime B4 you forgot to include the oestrogen?  I expect someone will be along with advice but in your position I would start the oestrogen now., as you have done.  It will take the body/brain a few days to realise that it is being supported.   And breath.

You could put the product names: individually: into the search box to see what pops up.  Make notes ;-).     we talk about most things here so you are welcome to chat away.

I do have a history of depression with acute anxiety.  Treated with various medications since 1988.  Mostly successfully.  In 2002 my GP prescribed Propranolol to ease the early morning anxiety surges: which I stopped in 2020 and now have an as-necessary emergency med to take when anxiety floors me.

As for grieving: there is no correct way.  You dealt at the time with your Dad's sudden death as necessary.  Now you have space to grieve.  Usually I'm OK at the time then something a couple of years later: usually something unrelated : will floor me.  CRUSE - run for the bereaved by the bereaved: is my suggestion.  Most areas have a group so do contact them for support.  MIND Charity are also a good way - either going to drop in centres or via e-mail.

and breath ........... this too will pass.  My biggest worry when anxiety hits is that it will never go away  .  But it does.

How is your diet? 

[Flossieteacake]

Hello photo-Jenny and welcome to the forum. I am so sorry to hear you have lost your Dad. How heart-breaking for you. I can understand you ploughing through work at the time. It is good to hear you have had therapy.

It is very likely the suicidal thoughts are a result of stopping the oestrogen. I too have a mood disorder and react to progesterone. Now that you have started the oestrogen again you are going to feel a lot better.

I can understand the panic you felt as to feel so bad is very frightening.

[photo_jenny]

WHOA! don't panic.  How was your regime B4 you forgot to include the oestrogen?  I expect someone will be along with advice but in your position I would start the oestrogen now., as you have done.  It will take the body/brain a few days to realise that it is being supported.   And breath.

You could put the product names: individually: into the search box to see what pops up.  Make notes ;-).     we talk about most things here so you are welcome to chat away.

I do have a history of depression with acute anxiety.  Treated with various medications since 1988.  Mostly successfully.  In 2002 my GP prescribed Propranolol to ease the early morning anxiety surges: which I stopped in 2020 and now have an as-necessary emergency med to take when anxiety floors me.

As for grieving: there is no correct way.  You dealt at the time with your Dad's sudden death as necessary.  Now you have space to grieve.  Usually I'm OK at the time then something a couple of years later: usually something unrelated : will floor me.  CRUSE - run for the bereaved by the bereaved: is my suggestion.  Most areas have a group so do contact them for support.  MIND Charity are also a good way - either going to drop in centres or via e-mail.

and breath ........... this too will pass.  My biggest worry when anxiety hits is that it will never go away  .  But it does.

How is your diet?

Hi there

Thanks for your reply, I really appreciate it. I was on Progesterone via the Mirena coil and Oestrogen tablets. As I said, for the most part, it was relieving the symptoms. I'm interested in what you said about the Propanolol - I may ask the GP about it when I see her on Tuesday. I want to have a review of the whole thing, and maybe ask about tweaking the Oestrogen. I have only just recently found out that I am in perimenopause still - I didn't have a period for over 2 years so I thought I was officially menopausal. However, I suddenly started with periods again last year. I was really alarmed and thought it was something sinister and the GP sent me for an ultrasound and another really painful test including a biopsy (I can't remember the name of this test but it was the worst pain I have ever experienced), and also a blood test and it transpired that I was actually still perimenopausal.

Thanks for the thoughts regarding bereavement support. I did actually do some research recently and there is not a CRUSE group in my city, nor is there an online forum that I could find. Sue Ryder do have an online forum, which I did join after my dad died but I didn't find it helpful, to be honest. I do quite a lot of meditation, and have recently got into yoga a bit, both of which help. I am not certain that MIND do drop-in places now - when I came out of my last hospital stay (2001), I went regularly to a drop in centre and it was helpful to a point. In a side note, I later became manager of a MIND charity shop and it was possibly the worst employer I have ever worked for. I have to say that this was MIND Retail, which is a different 'arm', but I did think it was ironic.

My diet is the best it has ever been. Virtually no sugar, nothing processed, 'anxiety-friendly' ingredients, no caffeine, hardly any alcohol ... I had a couple of sweets at works yesterday and felt really guilty! My only 'vice' is vaping, which is really low intake.

Anyway, you're right: anxiety and depression feel like 'forever' when you're in them, but it does end. I'm hopeful that the resumption of the Oestrogen will bring me a bit more peace. I think that I still have a ways to go but at least I have identified the culprit,

Thanks again for your support


 

[Perinowpost]

Hi photo_jenny

Oestrogen is nature’s Prozac (and not to dismiss all you have gone through) it will definitely have impacted on your mood.

I don’t ever plan to be without it.

Hoping you start to feel better soon x

[CLKD]

Let us know how you get on!

[photo_jenny]

Hello photo-Jenny and welcome to the forum. I am so sorry to hear you have lost your Dad. How heart-breaking for you. I can understand you ploughing through work at the time. It is good to hear you have had therapy.

It is very likely the suicidal thoughts are a result of stopping the oestrogen. I too have a mood disorder and react to progesterone. Now that you have started the oestrogen again you are going to feel a lot better.

I can understand the panic you felt as to feel so bad is very frightening.

Helloi

Thanks for your response - and thanks for your sympathies too. We lost him literally a week after the first lockdown was announced, and we were not able to visit him in hospital, be with each other or have any kind of funeral because they had been totally banned in our city at that time (later, funerals were allowed with limited people but right at the start it wasn't possible). So I reckon that I have an added trauma element to all this, too. But at least I have been able to face it all now - better late than never, I guess..

I am sure that you are right regarding the Oestrogen; my sister told me that she came off it for a week or so after forgetting her prescription around Christmas and thought she would 'see how she went' if she came off it for a month or so. She quickly found out that she felt terrible and went back on it as soon as she could manage it.

Thanks again for your kind words.

[photo_jenny]

Hi photo_jenny

Oestrogen is nature’s Prozac (and not to dismiss all you have gone through) it will definitely have impacted on your mood.

I don’t ever plan to be without it.

Hoping you start to feel better soon x

Thanks! I have to say that I feel a bit of a fool... I had some vague idea - based on zero research - that hormone replacement medications were like anti-depressant meds, i.e. they build up to therapeutic levels over time and therefore it wouldn't necessarily matter if a few days were missed. It probably wouldn't have mattered if a day was missed, but: a) if I had done any kind of research I would have discovered that Oestrogen only lasts a very short time in your body, and b) it was more like a week and a half. But I am where I am, and you are right - it is a very scary place to be. It's been 4 days now and I haven't noticed a huge difference - maybe a slight shift? Hopefully..

Thanks again.

[CLKD]

Not a fool at all!  None of us really knows how peri will affect us: hindsight tells me that I may have been 'there' when I had dreadful nausea attacks ........ but never associated with menopause.  I knew where every waste basket was in shops on an 'incase basis' because the nausea would come over me all of a sudden! 

Get back into a routine and your body will adjust.  4 days is nowt in the scheme of things ;-).

[Kathleen]

Hello photo _jenny and welcome to the forum.

I am sorry for your loss and for the problems that you are dealing with.

I am very post meno and a few years ago I decided to come off all HRT to see where I was naturally. I reduced gradually and stopped progesterone before I stopped Oestrogen. At two weeks Oestrogen free I noticed a return of hot flushes and night sweats plus vaginal dryness started but the most difficult thing was the effect on my emotional health. I experienced very low moods and intense crying spells.  I saw my GP who explained that lack of Oestrogen was the problem and I went back to using HRT.

I have fiddled with the dose and various regimes since then and I am still prone to mood changes but nothing as extreme as the time I was completely without any Oestrogen.

I understand that Oestrogen gel lasts up to eighteen hours in the body and I imagine the tablets are about the same which is why they need to be taken daily.

I hope you begin to feel better soon and please keep us updated.

Wishing you well and take care.

K.

[photo_jenny]

Hello photo _jenny and welcome to the forum.

I am sorry for your loss and for the problems that you are dealing with.

I am very post meno and a few years ago I decided to come off all HRT to see where I was naturally. I reduced gradually and stopped progesterone before I stopped Oestrogen. At two weeks Oestrogen free I noticed a return of hot flushes and night sweats plus vaginal dryness started but the most difficult thing was the effect on my emotional health. I experienced very low moods and intense crying spells.  I saw my GP who explained that lack of Oestrogen was the problem and I went back to using HRT.

I have fiddled with the dose and various regimes since then and I am still prone to mood changes but nothing as extreme as the time I was completely without any Oestrogen.

I understand that Oestrogen gel lasts up to eighteen hours in the body and I imagine the tablets are about the same which is why they need to be taken daily.

I hope you begin to feel better soon and please keep us updated.

Wishing you well and take care.

K.

Hi

Thanks for the reply and reassuring words.

I have just seen the GP and she confirmed that my mood 'crash' was indeed linked to stopping the Oestrogen. I was 99% certain that it was, but good to get it verified by the doctor. The only thing she said that worried me was when I asked her if going back on the Oestrogen would bring me back to where I was before; she said she was 'hesitant' to say for sure because it may not be the case - apparently it isn't always. However, she was reasonably sure when I told her that my mood had improved from 'suicidal' to 'really bad' - a shift of a few degrees, but definitely not the same or worse. Also my night sweats have got a lot better - I had a re-emergence of that particular pleasure on top of all the rest. I'm hoping for the best.

Again, thanks for your support 

[CLKD]

Did she prescribe anyway or recommend another regime, or refer you to a dedicated Menopause Clinic?    GPs don't always have any idea as to how we react to HRT.  It would be worth giving it another try - keeping a diary to chart progress.

[photo_jenny]

Did she prescribe anyway or recommend another regime, or refer you to a dedicated Menopause Clinic?    GPs don't always have any idea as to how we react to HRT.  It would be worth giving it another try - keeping a diary to chart progress.

I am basically just going back to the regime I was on before the lapse (Mirena coil/Oestrogen tablets). This was serving me well - my problems started when I suddenly stopped taking the Oestrogen component and essentially went cold turkey. So I don’t think that a change in regime is the answer, necessarily.

I had not seen this GP before, but she is a woman (always helps!) and about my age. She did really listen and was sympathetic. What she basically said was a) that the complete deterioration of my mood was the result of having no Oestrogen, and b) that because my mood had lifted somewhat since I started back on the oestrogen tablets that she thought I was going in the right direction - albeit slowly - but to give it a couple of weeks.

[CLKD]

That's good - now allowing your body to settle which may take a few days ......... improvement will be gradual.  Let us know!