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[meno-mel]

The BMA says one year period free after 50, or two years period free before 50, is sufficient to diagnose menopause.

However we all know women who don't fit into this frame, myself being one of them. I was rediagnosed as peri age 53 after a couple of years of being diagnosed as post menopausal just before then.

The statistics are that 80% of women are postmeno by age 54, so again that is enough surety for a diagnosis of menopause without physical signs, (quote from MM magazine, Dr Currie's casebook; "We know that your periods have stopped if you have had at least a year without periods, or are aged 54. By age 54, 80% of women have stopped having periods.") knowingly misdiagnosing 20% of women in the process!

I wondered does anyone know what percentage of women fail to fit into the first statement in this post and are still peri but without periods for a year or more at a time?
Is it as much as 20% like the other criteria misdiagnoses?

[CLKD]

Morning.  How long is a piece of string?  Bodies are individual.  It depends on how the ovaries continue to mutter on.  Nature throws the curved ball.

I think the 12 months free of a unexpected bleed is to raise awareness that sometimes this needs investigation.

[meno-mel]

I though a few more women might share their experiences of how their periods came and went at the end. Anyone???

I'm inclined to blame covid for my misdiagnosis of menopause, maybe other women aren't even told an opinion on whether they are post or peri, it only matters for some of the medications offered, not all of them. I don't know if I had COVID. If I had COVID it wasn't the three named symptoms, I had an upset tummy and breathlessness, but no cough (same way I take flu) hence no test, but I felt very ill. My periods resumed 14 or 15 months later when I started Evorel Conti.

I want tibolone ideally but can't have it until I'm diagnosed as post meno again, so for me it does matter a lot.

I've no idea if that will ever happen while I take HRT, it was HRT that ended menopause for me and my five day cycle every 4 weeks were the only days I bled the year I was on Conti, after more than a year without periods.

The pattern is not controlled by the conti regimens so it has to be my ovaries creating the time frames of each period, what else can it be?

As long as my ovaries are functioning, even if they only function when taking HRT, it's still function that means I'm not post only peri and can't have tibolone yet.

I'm mopping my armpits as usual btw as I type, no relief from the sweating yet. We stayed away at the weekend and I soaked through the bedding, even though I lined the bed with towels. I woke with sweat dripping from my knees which were up out of the covers by then.
I still feel Estradot50 is better than Evorel50, I can feel something with Estradot and that must be better than feeling nothing the way Evorel50 is.

After I get my scan next month they will consider raising my oestrogen for the first time if my lining is thin enoough. I'm still on the starting dose that doesn't work, but because I was bleeding regularly on conti, I have to have a scan first and it's an eight month wait for that. Nearly there if it's not cancelled for the strikes!

Unfortunately, as I mentioned elsewhere, they have scheduled my scan for day 28 of my cycle, after an 8 month wait that's all they could offer me, alongside some mumbles about if a cancellation comes up then maybe they could see me on a day when the long awaited scan might reveal useful information, wouldn't that be nice? Makes a change from the usual "we lost your results" fitted into various different scenarios.

The staff aren't there without the money and the new cuts this year to the health service are eyewatering. It's certainly no way too try to get it functioning again, the auxillary services like carers respite haven't been able to resume yet, special needs kids and adults are just left without services indefinitely, but fixing it isn't their plan, is it?

[CLKD]

Sadly a) no idea about peri/menopause and b) no idea about the care industry etc.; really became evident during Covid-19.  For the governments of the day, many specialities have been out of sight out of mind 

Do U have a date for your scan? 

Peri-menopause are the years leading up to the final period - literally into menopause.  Which lasts for ever.  We are told to allow 12-14 months after the 'final' bleed to believe that we are in menopause.  However, I suspect that HRT may well restart the ovaries into believing that 'there is life yet'  so breakthrough bleeding occurs with stimulation of a regime.

Sorry that you haven't had the responses you would like: mayB your thread was missed or perhaps others haven't experienced this particular symptom. 

[sheila99]

Sorry I don't know the answer. I don't really know as I'm on hrt, probably many on here are the same. Is changing gp or getting an appointment at a meno clinic an option? Your symptoms are clearly not controlled so most gps would already have increased the dose. If the lining is too thick (immediately after a bleed if on sequi) then the progestin should be tweaked.

[meno-mel]

Do U have a date for your scan? 

Yes, I queried the date because it is going to be day 28 of my cycle and 4 months ago they told me to move my periods to the middle of the month if possible, I managed to do it, then they said, ok here's the only appointment we can offer you and it's on day 28 of the cycle we imposed upon you, which is very annoying all round.

Sorry I don't know the answer. I don't really know as I'm on hrt, probably many on here are the same. Is changing gp or getting an appointment at a meno clinic an option? Your symptoms are clearly not controlled so most gps would already have increased the dose. If the lining is too thick (immediately after a bleed if on sequi) then the progestin should be tweaked.

Oh I see what you mean, most GPs will allow HRT to be given before the woman is officially post meno so many here will have been on HRT before their periods got a chance to do what mine did, or not do it. I hadn't thought of that!
I can't change GP, there isn't a local one with vacancies and they all seem to have a five mile limit, so I can't look further afield.
This will be my first face to face menopause appointment and it's at the menopause clinic, the GP referred me last July, 54 weeks ago and then referred me again in October for abnormal or post meno bleeding, so I'll get a scan because of that as well while I'm there, but it will be the day before my next period is due and they have no way of seeing me at a more suitable time, I've offered to come in whenever they like.
I'm allowed to use utrogestan vaginally until the scan, but not at a reduced dose and when I got speaking to the nurse recently she said again I couldn't have more oestrogen until they are satisfied my womb lining isn't building up too much.

So roll on next month. I really hope they aren't all on strike again by then.

[CLKD]

Tnx for the. update.  Do take a list of worries to discuss with them at the appt. and let us know how you get on. 

[EllBee]

Hi @meno-mel
I’m sorry I missed your post initially. I have been searching for info on this as I am in exactly the same position, now 52. I just wanted to let you know you’re not alone.
Regular pre-covid (no obvious peri symptoms but also hypothyroid so a lot of overlap that means I could have misattributed)
Vaccines - disrupted my cycle but bounced back to regular
Covid Dec-21 - sent me overnight into menopause (just turned 50)
Long Covid diagnosis
Finally prescribed HRT Jan-23 (14mths without period)
Feb-23 - period!!!
Since then, I’ve been getting frequent but irregular bleeds, sometimes skipping months.
Doctors don’t seem to have a clue - adamant that because I had gone 12 months without a period I was definitely post-meno. But it just doesn’t tally with my body!!  There are many months where I have got ovulation signs, so I don’t believe this is simply breakthrough bleeding. Yet they won’t believe me. I’ve not been referred to the women’s clinic to see the gynaecologist despite all this (only for their tick a box scans, no investigation as to why this is happening just an “everything is ok”).
I’ve had two scans and referred for a hysteroscopy which wasn’t deemed necessary as my lining was well within expectations and no sign of building up too thick.
I’ve managed to increase my oestrogen up to 4 pumps to help with some ongoing symptoms (as advised I’d prob need that by two doctors - gynie and my long covid doc) but was put straight on continuous progesterone 100mg and have had no guidance on whether that’s correct dose or not given my issues. I’m at a complete loss and don’t know where to go next!! I’ve got an appointment with my endo in June so will discuss with him then - he was the one who first suggested I try HRT, and told me covid and the vaccines definitely impact women’s cycles and can accelerate menopause - this was independently backed up by my long covid doctor (who’s wife is a menopause specialist GP).

So I hope that’s at least some assurance for you that you’re not alone, it is a thing, and I completely agree with you that this standardised average treatment is not helpful for those of us (20%!!) who are outside the norm with known cycle-disrupting pathology.

If you’ve found anything out in the last 12 months I’d be really interested and happy to share anything I find out too.
Yours in limbo!! 

 

[CLKD]

Some regimes may cause break through bleeding but some GPs aren't aware. 

Peri-menopause: the years leading up to the last monthly period = Menopause.  Peri when ladies may find that they become more anxious, periods wax and wane, flushes may begin.  Mine disappeared for several months then returned regularly 

We are advised to go 12-15 months without a period to consider that we are into 'menopause'.  I carried protection for 5 years after my last bleed on an in case basis!

So strictly without a period after that time we are OK, however any unexpected bleeding should be checked for womb lining. 

EliBee - which HRT regime have you been prescribed?

[EllBee]

Hi CLKD thanks for your reply. I’m brand new here so took me a while to find this post again!

This forum has been an amazing resource for helping me understand all the “standard” definitions of peri/post-meno - it’s the Covid curveball that I don’t think is being taken into consideration by my GP and gynaecologists I’ve seen, just like meno-Mel is experiencing. Mine just don’t seem to have a clue despite the research on cycle disruption. It’s very confusing to be going through without support and input from my GP.

I’ve had numerous investigations, scans and biopsies for the “breakthrough” bleeds and every time been told there’s nothing wrong, which is to an extent reassuring. It’s just seeming a bit too “regular” to go ignored!!  So I really appreciate any advice.

I’m on
Oestrogel 4 pumps (3mg) daily
Utrogestan 100mg daily
Testogel 5mg daily

There’s been no mention of adjusting my Utro dose and no interest in checking my hormone levels. I’ve never had progesterone level tested, and my GP seems clueless about the guidelines to check oestrogen and testosterone levels to ensure correct balance - she actually refused to test, asking for evidence it was needed, and didn’t respond when I sent her the BMA HRT guidelines! They only seem interested in doing the cancer screens rather than helping me to stabilise on the right HRT.

My LC specialist is much more clued up and does test my oestrogen and testosterone levels, and my endocrinologist is also knowledgeable on this so I’m hoping to get some support in the next couple of months - so want to be prepped with some questions!

Thank you!

[Dierdre]

I thought I'd finished at 53 after going 15 months without a period then had another one. Had tests but all was fine and it was an actual period. I then went another 8 months and had another period, didn't bother with tests this time as i knew it was a period with aching breast and the usual bloating then period pains.
That was the final one at age 54 until i went on conti HRT at age 62 for vaginal atrophy as local estrogen wasn't enough.  My periods or a bleed started again every month for 3 months, they were very heavy with clots. I gave up the HRT as i didn't want the bleeding as it wasn't reducing much by 6 months. It stopped as soon as i came off HRT and I increased my local estrogen instead.