Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[sheila99]

I hate to say it but as it's the same strength it's unlikely to help although it's possible you may absorb slightly differently. If you haven't spoken to the doctor yet I would ask for an increased strength rather than a different brand. You can get 75mcg patches.

[joziel]

I agree with Sheila. You can also cut half one of your 50 patches to make 25 and then use a 50 patch and the 25 to = 75.

[meno-mel]

Well this is hopeful.
I got talking to a GP yesterday and also a nurse from the HRT clinic,
Like buses they came together, at last.

I asked both of them;
"Can I take utrogestan vaginally instead of orally, because I heard from people online that it reduces the side effects?"
and, "Can the dose be reduced if taken that way? People say it is absorbed better so a lower dose is needed."

Both gave me the same response, "I'll have to ask someone else and phone you back tomorrow".

So that is the Utrogestan moving forwards and I hope at least one of them phones me today, I can happily not take any of that devil's brew while I wait, result!

That's not all. While the GP didn't know about utrogestan, she was fine to prescribe me estradot50 after I explained it was the same as Evorel50 in theory, just a different brand that some people find works better for them and Evorel wasn't working yet after 13 weeks.

I had already checked stock in my area was not a problem and replaced Evorel50 with Estradot50 about lunchtime yesterday.

For the first time in months and months I was not sweating in bed last night.

For the first time in months and months I'm drinking my morning coffee and I'm not sweating at all, not even a little bit, is this even possible? I honestly have tears in my eyes at the prospect of this HRT actually doing something positive that I can feel, not just in theory helping my bones. (yeah, I know caffeine = bad, but no coffee = no poo! that's worse)

For the last couple of years I've placed tissues under my armpits to soak up the sweat which drowns me every morning from 3 or 4am until midday. I need extra clothes if I'm out early and recently gave up work after a year of no success on hrt.

From soaking wet armpits and nighties that can be wrung out, to dryness, in just under 24 hours, is this even possible?

Am I attributing too much to the Evorel to Estradot switch? It's the same dose after all. Can 24hours of Estradot50 really do more than 13 weeks of Evorel50?

I think I was amazed like this when I first took Evorel Conti last year (my first HRT), before the progesterone built up, but Evorel50 just didn't do anything much at all.

Is it really Estradiol hemihydrate vs Estradiol that is not hemihydrate and different absorption rates? That was mentioned here.

I don't feel sick either, I might not need my anti-sickness tablets today!

Long may it last, but I'll take however long I get of feeling well!

[Flossieteacake]

Aw, you sound so happy today! I am thrilled. Sounds like the appointments went well and you have found the oestrogen that works for you.

[meno-mel]

Sounds like you need more estrogen. 50mcg is really just the average starting point. Many women need 100mcg plus, especially if they are peri and still relatively young.

With the utrogestan, try it vaginally and see if that helps it not to affect your mood.

Is there any literature on taking utrogestan vaginally?

The HRT clinic hasn't phoned yet, the GP said if the HRT clinic allow vaginal utrogestan, then I can have it.
BUT the GP also said they couldn't let me take it vaginally unless the HRT clinic said I could because it isn't issued that way for HRT as far as they are aware. The only thing the HRT clinic committed to so far is that the dose definitely won't be reduced if I'm allowed to take it vaginally instead of orally.

Does that mean the side effects won't be reduced either?
I don't think they'd ever been asked any of this before, I like to think of all these ideas trickling through the system like water after a drought, if we all keep comparing notes, soon enough it will be hard to believe noone knew this or that about menopause in 2023.

I can feel a difference with Estradot50, I'm feeling better in ways I expected HRT to do, but Evorel50 didn't for me, feeling something is a good starting point to be at.

[CLKD]

That's OK the GPs are contacting the Menopause Clinic on your behalf.  They are also on a learning curve ;-).  It may be that the person that they need to speak with is busy or on holiday.

Do U use an anti-perspirant ?  I have found this hot weather has increased my output - rarely do I require any under arm products unless we are going out in crowded places.  When at home I use 'talc' underneath.

Little steps. 

[Ermin2trude]

I’m so glad I’m not alone in loving my Estradot 50 after struggling with Evorel. In some countries Estradot is the only licensed HRT oestrogen product because it has far fewer side effects. I can testify to that.

[joziel]

Sure there's info about utrogestan vaginally here, I set it to start at the right place: https://youtu.be/MfjelYv-GZ4?t=623

[meno-mel]

Thanks again joziel. The dr in the clip says the utrogestan dose is halved if taken vaginally 

BUT The menopause clinic in our area isn't allowing half doses vaginally so if I do it that way I'm going against their advice.

They haven't decided if I'm allowed it vaginally at all, I asked on Wednesday, then again on Thursday, both people were going to ask others and get back to me. I'm happy to not take it at all while they ponder my options!

CLKD, the GP was asking another GP, not the meno clinic. It was me who phoned the clinic. The GPs both said the only local progesterone allowed for menopause is the mirena, unless I get other instructions from the menopause clinic.

I didn't expect much, that GP was asking my own GP, who's the GP "with an interest in menopause/hrt". She is also a doctor who doesn't believe in progesterone intolerance being a factor in HRT. She insists hrt is at a much lower dose than contraceptives and  simply cannot make a patient feel that bad, certainly not suicidal as I've reported repeatedly to them. She has told me she doesn't understand my side effects, what I'm reporting (feeling suicidal) isn't even physically possible as a side effect of my HRT.   

I know from reading here it is something commonly experienced. It's very frustrating not to be believed when I'm asking for their help.

[CLKD]

meno-mel - that doesn't encourage >searching for word  < 'confidence' ?  Sorry I mis-understood  .

Who will know if you are using a half dose?  If it works, sometimes we need to be pro-active .  Because it's not licensed does that mean that we shouldn't experiment ?

[meno-mel]

meno-mel - that doesn't encourage >searching for word  < 'confidence' ?  Sorry I mis-understood  .

Who will know if you are using a half dose?  If it works, sometimes we need to be pro-active .  Because it's not licensed does that mean that we shouldn't experiment ?

Indeed, I commented this to my husband yesterday, I can't imagine them looking to see where I put the blasted things, so if I believe it might be better taken vaginally at half the dose, then I ought to try it and find out for myself.

[joziel]

The halving thing is a bit controversial. Newson Health recommend halving but the British Meno people say you should use the same dose as we don't yet have evidence for halving.

If you have a reason to try halving (ie side effects to progesterone) then you could try it and see if you get unwanted bleeding - that would be an indication you need more progesterone and can't do the halving thing.

[meno-mel]

I don't know what type of bleeding is expected and what isn't.
Noone seems able to explain it to me.
HRT gives me periods, I expected my periods to stay stopped, but they didn't, every 3-5 weeks I have a 5 day period complete with PMS. It's just what my body does if you give it extra hormones.

With each type of HRT, my periods start heavy and frequent, then get fewer and lighter as the months go on and I get used to it. I expect my periods would stop again if I ever had long enough on the same HRT.

I have no idea what that means for my progesterone levels, I bleed when I'm ready, regardless of whether it follows the progesterone part of the HRT or not.

I had to be post menopausal before being prescribed anything except antidepressants and painkillers with a side order of "learn some sleep hygiene". No shit Sherlock, doesn't work if the cause of the insomnia isn't anything to do with poor sleep hygiene!

Does anyone else think Dr Newson comes across as a bit fanatical? Not presenting both viewpoints as you might expect of a professional, only repeating it's really really safe.

[meno-mel]

Day 6 after switching from Evorel50 to Estradot50;
My boobs are rounder! Yay
But I still have no further advice from the GP or clinic about how to take utrogestan 

It was an uphill struggle to get a telephone appointment with a GP to ask my question in the first place. They said it had to be decided by the HRT clinic, unfortunately the HRT clinic aren't willing to make a decision either.

So the only person left here, still interested in what I'm supposed to do next, is me.

I guess that means the decision is mine.

I'll start with 100mg daily utrogestan vaginally then after six days I'll think about whether to try increasing it to 200mg which the HRT clinic said would be the minimum daily dose whichever way I take it.

Right now I just want to go a few hours without weeing myself. Evorel50 didn't do a lot, but since switching to Estradot50 I've been weeing myself all day long, can't make it to the loo in time at all 
Is it better to take 200mg utrogestan together, or two doses of 100mg, 12 hours apart?

[Flossieteacake]

Are you using any localised oestrogen? This will help with the urge to go to the loo. It sounds like you have vaginal atrophy.

I think your idea of using the ultrogestan is a sensible one. You can always see how you find it and then review from there.