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[lilbebel]

Hello lilbebel, how are you doing today?

I just wanted to tell you about another side/opinion of utrogestan and progesterone in general.

Like you I have always had terrible PMDD and thought I couldn’t tolerate progesterone. However there is a new way of thinking about progesterone and it isn’t the ‘bad’ hormone it’s made out to be. Some women’s bodies, crave oestrogen, some testosterone and some crave progesterone. There are trials going on where they are giving women with severe PMDD high doses of utrogestan (up to 1200mg per day) to relieve PMDD.

For me, I feel suicidal on 100mg per day. The lowest of the low. Life is very black. My dose has been doubled to 200mg per day (I take it orally) and feel calm, happy, motivated. My body craves progesterone, which makes sense because I have always had symptoms of too much oestrogen which I thought was ‘normal’ PMT.

Don’t give up, you will find the right dosage and toleration level. I almost gave up.

Best wishes,
ermin

Hello Ermin, I found a reference for the studies, you were talking about:

https://www.larabriden.com/progesterone-mood-treat-pmdd/

Thank you for bringing this to my attention. It’s very interesting. I’m wondering if it’s worth My trying a higher dose. Can I ask you please how long it took for you to feel better? Was it immediate? I so need help right now. I’m back down to my lower dose for the past three days but still feeling suicidal depressed. I could feel that it’s hormonal but it doesn’t make it less intense.

[Ermin2trude]

Hello lilbebel,

The difference was almost instant. The first night I took the higher dose, I slept really well and woke up feeling calm and really settled. I knew I couldn’t feel worse and I had the added benefit of my menopause specialist explaining 100mg a night might not be enough and if I felt really low, it was my body craving more progesterone, so to double the dose. I take the higher dose continuously and feel really well. It also helped being told that some people need 1200mg per day, so 100mg is a really low amount.

I hope you find your sweet spot with progesterone.

Ermin.

[lilbebel]

Thank you for this. My other question to you is do you find it sedating? On 100 mg, I can barely function the next day. I’m so tired and drugged feeling. Does that happen to you? Or did it happen on the lower dose and disappear on the higher?

[Ermin2trude]

The 200mg was sedating in that I slept really really well. But I woke up feeling calm, refreshed, motivated, happy. I also had so much energy. It probably took about a week before I realised how much energy I had, and also how much my sense of humour and sense of fun returned. My husband pointed out that I was back to my chatty self whereas the 100mg had rendered me silent, withdrawn and very very subdued, feeling like a zombie, depressed, anxious, sobbing for hours, totally unable to function.

[lilbebel]

Thank you. This is really interesting. Your description of how you were on 100mg is exactly how it impacts me. I’m wondering if I can find the courage to try 200mg. It feels so dangerous given how fragile I feel. Perhaps with my husband watching me all day so I’m safe.

[Ermin2trude]

There’s no harm in trying it, especially if your husband is on board. I had a long discussion with my husband and he promised to watch over me the following day as I was terrified of myself and what I might do, but the very first morning after taking it, I was having breakfast and felt so ‘normal’. The whole of the day I was expecting to crash back down again, but I didn’t and every day I have felt a little bit better. Additionally, and this is a big plus for me, my migraines have ceased.

Since you posted the link to progesterone and Lara Briden, I have visited her website and found out my body has been craving progesterone for decades, all those years of PMT/PMS/PMDD/ridiculously heavy painful periods could have been avoided. 🤬😡

[discogirl]

Hi Ermin2trude

I've been following this post with a lot of interest.

Could I ask (and sorry if you've clarified this already) what dose of estrogen are you on?

I find that with utrogestan, taking it at night is no good for me, as it seems to leave me feeling very wired. I've been taking vaginally in the mornings but only just started taking it orally in the mornings.

How do you take the 200mg utrogestan, do you take them orally at night or vaginally?

Thanks so much xx

[lilbebel]

There’s no harm in trying it, especially if your husband is on board. I had a long discussion with my husband and he promised to watch over me the following day as I was terrified of myself and what I might do, but the very first morning after taking it, I was having breakfast and felt so ‘normal’. The whole of the day I was expecting to crash back down again, but I didn’t and every day I have felt a little bit better. Additionally, and this is a big plus for me, my migraines have ceased.

Since you posted the link to progesterone and Lara Briden, I have visited her website and found out my body has been craving progesterone for decades, all those years of PMT/PMS/PMDD/ridiculously heavy painful periods could have been avoided. 🤬😡

I’m deeply moved by your story and I’m truly so happy for you. I’m going to talk to my husband and see if he’d be willing to be my side if I try this as an experiment.

[Furyan]

The 200mg was sedating in that I slept really really well. But I woke up feeling calm, refreshed, motivated, happy. I also had so much energy. It probably took about a week before I realised how much energy I had, and also how much my sense of humour and sense of fun returned. My husband pointed out that I was back to my chatty self whereas the 100mg had rendered me silent, withdrawn and very very subdued, feeling like a zombie, depressed, anxious, sobbing for hours, totally unable to function.

Hi Ermin - like Disco, I’m intrigued what dose and type of oestrogen you are on but also the idea you mentioned about women’s bodies being optimal on more/less of one hormone over another. The latter part particularly reflects how each woman’s optimal physiology is different, it’s how we were each created with unique needs…

I’m on just under 3 pumps of estradiol but I know I need more, so when I upped it couple days ago to 3.5, lo and behold I’ve now bleeding. I’m on 100mg utrogestan every night (oral), however I’m wondering if this dose would be sufficient for me personally if I increase my oestrogen (I quickly reduced to just under 3 pumps again with the bleed!). I always thought that the standard 100mg was the limit if taken continuously!
So, for comparison sake, I’d be interested to know what does oestrogen you are taking.

[Ermin2trude]

Hi Ermin2trude

I've been following this post with a lot of interest.

Could I ask (and sorry if you've clarified this already) what dose of estrogen are you on?

I find that with utrogestan, taking it at night is no good for me, as it seems to leave me feeling very wired. I've been taking vaginally in the mornings but only just started taking it orally in the mornings.

How do you take the 200mg utrogestan, do you take them orally at night or vaginally?

Thanks so much xx

Hi Disco,

I am on Estradot 50. The Utrogestan is 200mg orally every night. I tried vaginally when I was taking 100mg every night to see if it would counteract the extreme low mood, but that caused bladder issues and I spent half the night visiting the loo. It also didn’t help the mood.

It all made perfect sense when it was explained to me by my menopause specialist (Newson Clinic). Now that I have enough progesterone and my body (head) isn’t behaving like a toddler with a tantrum wanting more, I feel like I did in my twenties.

BTW I persevered for a long time with the oestrogen gel, but I couldn’t get the dosage right, and then I tried Evorel 50 patches which gave me fortnightly heavy bleeds plus excessive bloating. I’ve been on Estradot 50 for 8 months now with no issues.

Ermin x

[Ermin2trude]

The 200mg was sedating in that I slept really really well. But I woke up feeling calm, refreshed, motivated, happy. I also had so much energy. It probably took about a week before I realised how much energy I had, and also how much my sense of humour and sense of fun returned. My husband pointed out that I was back to my chatty self whereas the 100mg had rendered me silent, withdrawn and very very subdued, feeling like a zombie, depressed, anxious, sobbing for hours, totally unable to function.

Hi Ermin - like Disco, I’m intrigued what dose and type of oestrogen you are on but also the idea you mentioned about women’s bodies being optimal on more/less of one hormone over another. The latter part particularly reflects how each woman’s optimal physiology is different, it’s how we were each created with unique needs…

I’m on just under 3 pumps of estradiol but I know I need more, so when I upped it couple days ago to 3.5, lo and behold I’ve now bleeding. I’m on 100mg utrogestan every night (oral), however I’m wondering if this dose would be sufficient for me personally if I increase my oestrogen (I quickly reduced to just under 3 pumps again with the bleed!). I always thought that the standard 100mg was the limit if taken continuously!
So, for comparison sake, I’d be interested to know what does oestrogen you are taking.

Hi Furyan,

I’m on Estradot 50 patches with the 200mg of utrogestan every night continuously. I tried the gel but couldn’t get the dosage right and I bled heavily every fortnight on Evorel 50 patches (?!?).

I know the standard dose for everyone is 2 pumps of gel, or a 50 patch plus 100 mg of utrogestan, but our bodies are so different it’s insane that we all need the exact HRT. Everyone seems to understand the benefits of oestrogen and what their bodies need, so adjust accordingly, but so little research has been done on progesterone (or testosterone). I feel very fortunate to have a menopause specialist who has colleagues conducting progesterone trials on women with PMS/PMDD etc. she knew immediately that 100mg of utrogestan a night was not going to be enough for me and that I would be feeling desperate on that dose, and she was right. I also found that some of symptoms (aching joints, night sweats, migraines, fatigue) disappeared when the utrogestan was increased.

I hope you manage to find your perfect combination.

Ermin x

[Ermin2trude]

There’s no harm in trying it, especially if your husband is on board. I had a long discussion with my husband and he promised to watch over me the following day as I was terrified of myself and what I might do, but the very first morning after taking it, I was having breakfast and felt so ‘normal’. The whole of the day I was expecting to crash back down again, but I didn’t and every day I have felt a little bit better. Additionally, and this is a big plus for me, my migraines have ceased.

Since you posted the link to progesterone and Lara Briden, I have visited her website and found out my body has been craving progesterone for decades, all those years of PMT/PMS/PMDD/ridiculously heavy painful periods could have been avoided. 🤬😡

I’m deeply moved by your story and I’m truly so happy for you. I’m going to talk to my husband and see if he’d be willing to be my side if I try this as an experiment.

Hi Lilbebel,

I have all my fingers and toes crossed that you find the right dose of HRT for you. I had been so close to stopping HRT altogether because of the suicidal thoughts, but happy my husband found a specialist who understood my problems were lack of progesterone. Good luck xx

[discogirl]

Hi Ermin2trude

I've been following this post with a lot of interest.

Could I ask (and sorry if you've clarified this already) what dose of estrogen are you on?

I find that with utrogestan, taking it at night is no good for me, as it seems to leave me feeling very wired. I've been taking vaginally in the mornings but only just started taking it orally in the mornings.

How do you take the 200mg utrogestan, do you take them orally at night or vaginally?

Thanks so much xx

Hi Disco,

I am on Estradot 50. The Utrogestan is 200mg orally every night. I tried vaginally when I was taking 100mg every night to see if it would counteract the extreme low mood, but that caused bladder issues and I spent half the night visiting the loo. It also didn’t help the mood.

It all made perfect sense when it was explained to me by my menopause specialist (Newson Clinic). Now that I have enough progesterone and my body (head) isn’t behaving like a toddler with a tantrum wanting more, I feel like I did in my twenties.

BTW I persevered for a long time with the oestrogen gel, but I couldn’t get the dosage right, and then I tried Evorel 50 patches which gave me fortnightly heavy bleeds plus excessive bloating. I’ve been on Estradot 50 for 8 months now with no issues.

Ermin x

Hi Ermin

Thanks so very much for explaining that.

it is very interesting xxx

[Furyan]

The 200mg was sedating in that I slept really really well. But I woke up feeling calm, refreshed, motivated, happy. I also had so much energy. It probably took about a week before I realised how much energy I had, and also how much my sense of humour and sense of fun returned. My husband pointed out that I was back to my chatty self whereas the 100mg had rendered me silent, withdrawn and very very subdued, feeling like a zombie, depressed, anxious, sobbing for hours, totally unable to function.

Hi Ermin - like Disco, I’m intrigued what dose and type of oestrogen you are on but also the idea you mentioned about women’s bodies being optimal on more/less of one hormone over another. The latter part particularly reflects how each woman’s optimal physiology is different, it’s how we were each created with unique needs…

I’m on just under 3 pumps of estradiol but I know I need more, so when I upped it couple days ago to 3.5, lo and behold I’ve now bleeding. I’m on 100mg utrogestan every night (oral), however I’m wondering if this dose would be sufficient for me personally if I increase my oestrogen (I quickly reduced to just under 3 pumps again with the bleed!). I always thought that the standard 100mg was the limit if taken continuously!
So, for comparison sake, I’d be interested to know what does oestrogen you are taking.

Hi Furyan,

I’m on Estradot 50 patches with the 200mg of utrogestan every night continuously. I tried the gel but couldn’t get the dosage right and I bled heavily every fortnight on Evorel 50 patches (?!?).

I know the standard dose for everyone is 2 pumps of gel, or a 50 patch plus 100 mg of utrogestan, but our bodies are so different it’s insane that we all need the exact HRT. Everyone seems to understand the benefits of oestrogen and what their bodies need, so adjust accordingly, but so little research has been done on progesterone (or testosterone). I feel very fortunate to have a menopause specialist who has colleagues conducting progesterone trials on women with PMS/PMDD etc. she knew immediately that 100mg of utrogestan a night was not going to be enough for me and that I would be feeling desperate on that dose, and she was right. I also found that some of symptoms (aching joints, night sweats, migraines, fatigue) disappeared when the utrogestan was increased.

I hope you manage to find your perfect combination.

Ermin x

Hi Ermin - thanks for explaining this, and I’m really happy for you that you found a specialist who knows their stuff and is willing to push the boat out a bit and experiment a bit. So important to do this with the right support so you’re not alone! What you say makes perfect sense and I’ll mention it to my specialist at my next review. For now, I will slightly increase the oestrogen to address the last few symptoms but strongly suspecting the progesterone should also be adjusted - not sure I can hold out til I see the consultant though! 

[Kathleen]

Hello ladies.

I have enjoyed reading this thread and the varying experiences with progesterone are very interesting.

Years ago I read an article about a woman who was having a terrible time but was helped by HRT. She was told that progesterone was the calming hormone which confused me as I understood that Oestrogen was infact the calming hormone.  Perhaps for her, she needed more Progesterone to feel well.

In all the time I have been using HRT the focus has been on Oestrogen rather than progesterone. I have always had to take them together as I have a womb and was three years post meno when I started HRT.

I am also a patient of Newson Health and the two doctors I have seen have emphasized the need for maximum oestrogen and minimal progesterone. I have never had great success with HRT and I have often wondered if I need more prog not less. This has never been suggested by NH. I have never experienced bad PMT or PMDD and I felt great during both my pregnancies.

At a  recent appointment with an NHS Consultant it was suggested that I double my use of Cyclogest pessaries. This is to protect the womb lining but perhaps it will help to balance my hormones and stabilise my mood swings. Unfortunately I cannot increase Cyclogest until my next NH appointment next month.  I am obviously worried that my mood could worsen but more prog could be the one thing that helps and it is something that I haven't tried before.

I completely understand how scary it is to keep changing HRT  and there is always the worry of feeling worse. However the desire to feel normal again is a powerful incentive!

Take care ladies and wishing you all well.

K.