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[Peana]

Hi, I'm going around in circles in my head and having spent all morning reading various threads on IBS I'm starting yet another one (sorry) to gather your thoughts and experiences.

I finally succumbed to covid yesterday and it seems to be making my already very bad IBS-D worse.  I also got some blood test results back which show low bicarbonate and high chloride which, after a bit of googling, suggest dehydration to me.  I am attributing this to my IBS-D as when the nurse was taking my bloods he did query if I was dehydrated as he was struggling with my veins.  I thought I'd had plenty of fluids, but had been suffering with bad IBS-D for a while (which this time around I think is mostly related to anxiety rather than diet).  I really do think my fluid intake is good as I had to spend a lot of time trying to persuade my parents to drink more, and I'm really aware of how important it is.  However, 3-4 very loose stools every morning, followed by frequent urination, seems to be drying me out, regardless of how much I try to drink throughout the day.

Right now the covid is obviously one of the reasons I feel rough, but I feel like I'm never going to get my anxiety under control in order to address my IBS-D, and other symptoms, and am in a viscious circle.  I've a phone appointment with a GP on Tuesday morning, but in the meantime I'm trying to work out what to raise with her in the limited time available.  Obviously I'll ask her to take me through the blood test results for her interpretation of them, but right now everything seems to point to dehydration. (I have also had 4 saliva stones this year already, and one of their triggers is dehydration).

Part of me wonders if increasing HRT would help the anxiety, and therefore the IBS-D, but on the other hand, could increased estrogen exaccerabate the IBS-D (it seems that people have experiences of both)?  I'm only on 50mcg estrogen, and for the first month I was on HRT (at 25mcg) my anxiety was great, but then dropped off a cliff and didn't improve when I increased my dose to 50 (at the time the GP thought that the increased dose would help, due to my initial positive response).  The NHS website mentions a low dose of amitriptyline for IBS, and maybe that might also help my anxiety, but one of the side effects is a drying of membranes, and I'm not sure if I could cope with that as I already have dry eye, nose, and mouth which flares from time to time. 

I don't normally have acid indigestion, but last year, when dad died, my digestion got really bad and I lost a stone in 3 weeks.  I was put on Omeprazole, but stopped after 6 weeks due to headaches and my symptoms settling down enough to be managed by over the counter stuff.  For the past few days I've started getting bad acid reflux again, which again I'm attributing to stress and anxiety.  I've some tablets left from last year, and part of me wants to take them again, but the other part thinks this is a bad idea and could make IBS-D worse.  I'm losing weight again, but very slowly, not like last year. 

I've read a lot about a FODMAP diet, and am considering that in the long-term, but until I get my anxiety under control I'm not sure it'll deliver the results for the hard work involved.  I keep a food and symptom diary so know a lot of my triggers (e.g. cauliflower, peanuts, caffeine, etc.), and so avoid them already.  I'm thinking of ordering some tormentil tincture to see if the astrigency of that helps 'tighten my tubes'.  What is unusual for me at the moment as that I'm usually very bloated with my IBS-D, but right now this is not a problem!

In the past I'd used CBT, but I'm struggling with that at the moment as my anxiety seems so ever present (dealing with lots of incredibly stressful events and deadlines since dad's death and dealing with his estate).  Similarly, 'mindful self compassion' isn't working particularly well for me just now either.  Yesterday I watched a few videos about 'Acceptance and Commiment Therapy' in the hope that those techniques might help - does anyone have any thoughts about that (or other technique)?

Sorry this is so long!  Up until 2 years ago I would have classed myself as pretty fit and healthy, I had a tendency to get stressed, but could still cope and could put up with the odd bout of IBS.  All thoughts and experiences gratefully received so I'm armed with as much info as possible for my GP appointment next week. 

[Flossieteacake]

I am sorry you are going through all this. With having covid you may not know what is IBS and what is the covid symptoms too. It is good you know your trigger foods and have eliminated them from your diet. Is it possible you are eating something else which could be triggering the IBS? Fruit, vegetables, beans, pulses.

Acid reflux is awful. If you found the omaprazole gave you headaches then you could try something else. I take lanzaprazole. If you cannot get anything until your appointment then you may find relief from tablets such as Tums.

I hope the doctors can get to the bottom of why you are dehydrated. I wonder if drinking electrolytes could help. They are useful to take after upset stomachs.

I can understand why this is causing you to feel anxious. Do you think you may benefit from an antianxiety tablet? Bare in mind you may not get the dryness symptom from amitriptyline.

If you do the fodmap diet your GP will need to refer you to a dietician to monitor you as it needs to be followed under supervision. I would not try to do it alone.

You can always have another course of CBT if you feel it would help. You can self refer for it.

[CLKD]

IBS is difficult to diagnose. 

Sometimes it is triggered by wheat; dairy; pulses, even chocolate  - mayB see a dietician as suggested so that you can cut out food stuffs with support that might cause your symptoms, gradually reintroducing them to see how the gut reacts.  Has Chrons etc. been ruled out? 

Hormones can cause IBS to be worse.  10 mins. B4 a bleed began, I would have to rush to the loo even if a period wasn't due.  As a recovering anorexic when in 1991 my digestive tract almost stopped working keeping the gut healthy has been difficult.  Foods that upset me for many years, i.e. onions, I can now tolerate.  Peas which I love, have recently caused intense reflux in the early hours. 

Omprazalol helps my reflux.  I swallow the capsule in the morning.  LIVE yoghurt has eased symptoms over the years.  Large spoonful several times a day to line the digestive tract from top to bottom.  Peppermint tea is useful and I have taken Colpermin capsules in the past which really helped.

Liquids can be taken from soups; drinks; as well as other food stuffs during the day.  I have taken to drinking more fruit juices with home made ice cubes added, little and often.  The way to tell if you are dehydrated is to nip the back of your hand, if it stands up rather than going back then you need to drink more.  Check the colour of your urine: the 1st pee of the morning may be smelly and dark.  As we hydrate during the day then it should become straw coloured, any lighter means that we are drinking too much. 


If you anxiety is over whelming due to 'issues', there's no harm in taking an anti-anxiety medication for a short while: 2-3 weeks daily followed by 6-8 months on an 'as necessary' regime.  I have an emergency tablet to swallow when necessary.  Bachs Rescue Remedy might help too.

[Peana]

Thanks for your kind words Flossieteacake and CLKD. 

I've been told I have IBS since I was a child, but never had a properly investigated, which I should have done, but you don't want to be a bother or take time off of work.  I think I'll ask about anti depressants - I've try to avoid them in case they upset me, but I'm at such a low ebb now maybe I just need to go for it.

I take a vitamin B complex tablet that causes the colour of my urine to change, but I'll look into the skin on your hand thing a bit more so I can keep on track of my dehydration.

No idea what triggered the memory, but I've just been thinking of my Nan sat at her old piano singing 'one day at a time'.  I'm not religious, although she was, but googling the lyrics has just made me have a good long cry.    Somehow makes you feel a bit less alone, remembering that everyone experiences suffering of one degree or another.

Thanks again

[Flossieteacake]

Thanks for your kind words Flossieteacake and CLKD. 

I've been told I have IBS since I was a child, but never had a properly investigated, which I should have done, but you don't want to be a bother or take time off of work.  I think I'll ask about anti depressants - I've try to avoid them in case they upset me, but I'm at such a low ebb now maybe I just need to go for it.

I take a vitamin B complex tablet that causes the colour of my urine to change, but I'll look into the skin on your hand thing a bit more so I can keep on track of my dehydration.

No idea what triggered the memory, but I've just been thinking of my Nan sat at her old piano singing 'one day at a time'.  I'm not religious, although she was, but googling the lyrics has just made me have a good long cry.    Somehow makes you feel a bit less alone, remembering that everyone experiences suffering of one degree or another.

Thanks again

I hope the memory of your Nan is a positive experience. Maybe crying will be helpful. Some find it a release and feel calmer afterwards.

[CLKD]

If you are depressed, you will need anti-depressant medication.  If it's anxiety, then ask for appropriate treatment.  ADs rarely ease anxiety. 

The gut is the first area to wobble it's the 2nd brain.  So any stress - in my case moving house aged 3, was the trigger.  Going from a stable environment of 6 to my parents and me ....... set the history of my upset guts when anxious.  = anorexia from aged 5.  Through my teens I wasn't too bad with eating, later on it caught up again .   

There really isn't an IBS diagnosis as it affects in different ways.  Stress can increase bowel movements: it's the fight/flight response to impending/imagined danger.  Knowing that doesn't help me though.   . Eating little and often has helped me in recent years.  Stops that sudden energy drop = nausea when my body is hungry. 

Do U keep a food diary to see what you eat/drink 24/7 - maybe for 5 days/nights to see if there is a pattern.

[CLKD]

How have u been today?

Headaches are also a sign of dehydration.  I woke in the early hours needing a cool drink 

[Lyncola]

About one year in menopause I got IBS, never had a problem before. After struggling for 3 months I sore my doctor. She referred me to a dietitian, the dietitian sat with me and asked a lot of questions.
She said she didn’t want to put me on a low FODMAP diet as I would be limiting my nutrition.
By listening to me, she said that it sounds like I’m lactose intolerant and fructose intolerant. Take lactose medication and avoid food with fructose. And she was correct, I have had flares ups, but I realised that there’s sugars in supermarkets bars and biscuits I couldn’t eat.
She recommended the Monash FODMAP app, it cost you money but well worth it.
I would recommend you see a dietitian, even if you do have to go on the low FODMAP diet you will have there help. I believe the FODMAP diet has a very large success rate, and for the small group of people that it doesn’t help, there is medication that can help.
Good luck

[CLKD]

Lactose in dairy ?

There are so many 'sugars' in food stuffs, natural and added.  Some of the 'alternative' sugars can cause 'the runs' too 

Let us know how you get on.

[Peana]

Thanks everyone for your thoughts and suggestions.  I'm definitely feeling better today and have been working on my anxious thoughts using some techniques I saw on 'therapy in a nutshell' on youtube (I saw someone had recommended it on another thread, and I'm finding some of the films very useful).  I've also managed to eat a bit more without dashing to the loo, so that's helping as I've a bit more energy.  It's 5 days since I tested positive for covid, so hopefully I'm past the worse of that, although I keep getting reminded by friends not to try to do too much too soon (that's really against my nature and I think part of my run-away anxiety right now is because I'm lying in bed dwelling on things and catastrophising everything - I'm even having stressful dreams where I lose my bus pass, or forget where I'm going, etc.).  However, I managed a 10 min walk around the garden this morning which was amazing!

I'm still pretty sure that my digestion issues right now are due to stress and anxiety, but longer term I will look at fodmap more seriously - I've already started a food and symptom diary.  I think I need to approach it from the mindset of how well I'll feel and function, rather than what I'm denied.  Let's see what the GP says on Tuesday - I'll keep you posted.

Thanks again.

[CLKD]

Little steps.  Covid can upset the digestive system!  As can hormonal upsets. 

Keep drinking plenty. 

[Amazing grace]

Hi peana, just thought I'd reply regarding amitriptyline, when peri first hit me I suffered horrible anxiety and for the first time in my life horrible IBS, I tryed everything but nothing worked until my lovely gp said to try amitriptyline I took 10mg and it wasn't a quick fix but around 10 weeks in everything started to improve within 5 months I had no IBS symptoms at all, it literally made a huge improvement, it helped me sleep, and kept my anxiety at bay, it absolutely did not dry anything out I think that's more likely on bigger doses, I stayed on it 3 years came off it as I wanted to see how I was without, my IBS has never came back, I'm back on it now for va type problems, burning vulva and frequent urination, it's dealt with those issues well too, and I definitely don't have dryness of any kind, 10mg is a tiny dose if IBS is impacting your life its definitely worth a try we are all different but I can honestly say it worked great for me only wish I'd tryed it sooner, my IBS was anxiety induced so may be different for you, but just thought I'd let you know that dryness isn't an issue if you did want to give it a try x

[Lyncola]

I’m currently on 100mg of Amitriptyline, not for IBS, and I don’t think it would make any difference to my IBS if I ate the wrong food.
I’m on amitriptyline for facial pain and headaches, July last year I was having 100 quick facial pains and headaches. I’m now at 0-7 per day.
I agree the sleeping has improved and my depression is gone. And no I don’t think I’d had dryness. When I was upping the level very two weeks I got a dry mouth, this still happens occasionally but not as bad as I was quickly going through higher levels of amitriptyline.
For me amitriptyline is a blessing

[CLKD]

va type problems, burning vulva and frequent urination. that's good to know Amazing grace.

[Amazing grace]

Hi CLKD, my gp thought that amitriptyline was a good choice as she thought IC at first and amitriptyline is used for that and the burning vulva she suggested it was irritated nerves from the VA, she was right as I got relief from that horrendous non stop burning feeling, and the non stop cystitis type feeling, I agree with lyncola amitriptyline has also been a blessing for me, IBS and VA caused me to be severely depressed it's the one thing that gave me relief x