Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[ATB]

Ok

[VanillaLover]

I believe that Gerd can set off palpitations yes as it irritates the vagus nerve. Please correct me if I’m wrong on that someone! For me HRT stopped the palpitations completely and improved digestion a lot though it still goes wonky sometimes. Do you take omeprazole etc for the Gerd?

[Marchlove]

What type of magnesium are you using?
I believe taurate is best for palpitations but you better check that on Google.
It might be an initial paradoxical reaction to the magnesium after being very deficient.

I reactive a bit oddly to magnesium when I first started using it but I’m now fine. I think it was my body suddenly waking up after years of omeprazole.

Oh by the way I believe you mentioned in another thread that your T4 is a tad high. Were you taking Utrogestan at the time of the test as progesterone increases T4. X

[ATB]

Marchlove, yes I was taking Utrogestan when I did that test. My doctor did not say that it might impact the T4 result, so thank you! I’m taking another test tomorrow and I’m not taking Utrogestan so will be interesting to see what happens. I’m now hoping I didn’t lower my meds without needing to, although if that’s the case it should only be a few weeks of raising it to resolve it.
I’m taking magnesium glycinate, I watched some videos from a doctor on YouTube who I think initially advised taurate but apparently the one I’m taking is still good, although I started for anxiety and insomnia and when I took it last night it made me so sleepy I’d be surprised if the palpitations are connected. I’m still wondering if I continue with them, as I’m now not on Utrogestan it might be better to keep with them to see if it still happens and if not then it’s more likely the lowering of estrogen at the time of my cycle affecting me. It is very hard to figure out! Thank you so much for your wisdom, you’re so helpful here!

VanillaLover, I believe you’re right about GERD and palpitations as I was looking it up yesterday. It’s odd it hasn’t happened before I started HRT but it might be the fact I’ve had a lot of estrogen then lowered it recently too. No I don’t take anything for the GERD, I think that what they give us is to lower stomach acidity but the issue actually isn’t high acid it’s low stomach acidity causing this. So they don’t help.

Thank you both.

[Wrensong]

Hi ATB, if you're on thyroid replacement I agree peri can be a very tricky time to work out what's going on, especially if your meds include T3 or NDT.  I'm long postmeno now but like you, found palpitations were worse during the luteal phase.  As Marchlove says, progesterone can increase thyroid levels for those of us with thyroid conditions (oestrogen replacement can have the opposite effect, you'll know I'm sure).  There's a link to a small study here, but I'm not surprised your doctor seemed unaware of the association as it doesn't seem to be widely known:-

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/23252963/

I also think your instinct that magnesium might be implicated in your palps could be right.  Magnesium is one of the minerals involved in conversion of T4-T3, so may be rendering you over-treated.  I used to take it daily pre-peri & found it very helpful in several ways, but had to stop altogether throughout those years as it seemed to rev my thyroid, adding to the sense of being hyper that also uncomfortably seems to come with the luteal phase.  Even long postmeno I now find I can only tolerate a very small dose of magnesium & in fact use a kids' formulation as the lowest I could get & easier than blunting knives trying to saw through 100mg tabs!

I hope your next TFT will help you work out what's going on.
Wx

[ATB]

Thank you Wrensong for such a helpful post. It really is good to hear from someone with a thyroid problem. I’m going to stop the magnesium for a month to see how I feel and if it affects my sleep or anxiety I can try a lower dose. I definitely don’t feel as well during the Utrogestan phase, but it is still hard to know which issue is causing the GERD & palps for sure. I had read that having low or insufficient estrogen affects thyroid function, but that it reduced your thyroid hormones. I assumed a higher thyroid result and need to lower meds was because my evorel was increasing my estrogen to healthy levels. Either way I think from years of doing this that I needed to lower my thyroid meds, which I did 2 months ago. I won’t lower again unless tomorrows test indicates I need to. I guess time will tell and that for me I will need to tweak things perhaps a few more times before I get it right. The anxiety and palpitations are my only big concerns now, other symptoms have gone. I have an ultrasound on my neck in 2 weeks to check a lump too so no doubt all of this is impacting my anxiety.

Thanks again!

[Wrensong]

I think this stage of life can be so bewildering for thyroid patients, especially in peri when our hormones are so erratic, so my heart goes out to you.  I think I saw somewhere that you're on NDT & it seems to me that those of us who need a T3 component to our replacement can find the menopause years especially challenging.  Posts from those members who aren't well on thyroxine alone, show time & again the complexity of balancing HRT with thyroid meds & how much we feel we have to learn, to be able to advocate for ourselves & give us the best chance of optimising our health.  Yet still half the time in peri it's pretty much best guess as to what's going on!  But we do get through it & postmeno everything becomes more stable.

I don't have GERD luckily, but wonder whether you feel the muscle relaxant effect of progesterone could be contributing to your reflux?  Magnesium too, now I think of it!  Sorry if this has been covered before, just seemed worth mentioning.

I think you're wise to stop the magnesium for a while, you can always start again, as you say maybe at a lower dose if you find you feel worse without it.

Good that you have a scan coming up to check your neck.  I had a partial thyroidectomy several decades ago, but had the remainder rescanned during peri as symptoms were so confusing it was impossible to tell what was due to menopause & what might be thyroid related, despite TFTs within range.

Please don't be alone with any worries, there's always someone to listen & help on here.
Wx

[ATB]

Thanks again, you are so helpful and knowledgeable. It can be quite a lonely experience because nobody around me understands why this is so complicated for me. I can’t wait for post-menopause! Seriously I want this to be over, it started when I was 39! I’m 46! Enough!! Ha. Yes I had to have NDT apparently, I tried a few different things but always thought to try T4 only again one day but it took so long to get well and now with menopause I just can’t deal with trying yet another thyroid solution. Maybe one day. Discussing this with you I feel good about the plan, just concentrate on getting my HRT right, no other supplements or anything. I started magnesium before I started CBT with a lovely therapist. It’s helping so I feel ok about the anxiety and not having magnesium. Im actually starting swimming again to help me with breathing as that is important with anxiety and I stopped when I first got sick as my then doctor didn’t want me exposed to so much chlorine every day- I’m a distance swimmer. I feel like all this time I stopped something that would of helped me, I’ve swum all my life and find it super relaxing and good fitness.

Regarding estrogen and thyroid hormones Marchlove, I found this in an article:

On a positive note, topical estrogen therapy was not found to affect TBG levels and therefore may be the preferred therapy for women who need both estrogen and thyroid replacement.

So that’s good at least I’m on patches so the best option for me.

Thanks 🙏

[Wrensong]

Absolutely, ATB, it can feel isolating in peri trying to navigate through sex hormone chaos on T3-T4 replacement whether NDT or synthetic, as there seem to be so few of us who aren't well on Thyroxine alone.  It's an added biiiig complication we could really do without, but if we need T3 we need it & there's no getting around that.  But I know of a handful of members who've been in this situation & I think coming here to compare notes at least helps lessen the sense of being alone with it & we sometimes learn of something we haven't tried that makes a difference.

I was like you, absolutely longing for postmenopause & it really does get easier then, when we're simply dealing with the consequences of hormone deficiency rather than on a constant rollercoaster of unpredictable hormonal peaks & troughs.  You will get there & this really tricky, horrible part of your life will just be a distant memory.

I was on NDT for a while when peri started but couldn't get the dose right & symptoms just made the whole situation so confusing.  On T4-T3 combination for a few years now & that works better for me.

I think the swimming is a great idea.  Like you, I used to swim regularly & agree it's great for all round fitness & relaxation.  I also found that doing controlled breathing exercises helped with palpitations & was especially useful during seemingly endless nights of intense sweats & insomnia.  Regular meditation was helpful too, as it seems to reset the system to a calmer default state if we can manage to practise regularly.

Let us know how your TFT pans out if you feel like sharing.
Wx

[ATB]

Thanks again, I really do appreciate your feedback. I’m not on social media so in no other groups or anything to get info like this from.

I haven’t had magnesium two nights now and I still fell asleep and anxiety didn’t seem to be an issue either, at the moment. I thought the anxiety I was having at night and waking with it was associated with high estrogen anyway so perhaps makes sense now I lowered my dose. I felt quite good with HRT generally until just recently with the palpitations and GERD so I feel like a little tweaking will get me back to that. I can exercise regularly now, not so tired, minor symptoms like itchy skin gone and I don’t suffer nighttime sweats anyway so that kind of thing didn’t trouble me. I did my thyroid test this morning so I’ll pop back here to update and in a month also to update on how the next Utrogestan phase goes. I don’t know if it’s being off Utrogestan or the apple cider vinegar before meals but my burping and bloating has settled too. The next month I think I’ll know more and figure this out. I have been on NDT 6 years or so, and was very happy on the dose I was on with perfect labs so for sure HRT is affecting things now.

Did you find it hard to switch from NDT to synthetics? It’s something I want to do but am nervous about.

[Wrensong]

I don't do social media either but this forum is fab for exchanging info & support.

Good that HRT was helping, great that you haven't had night sweats & you have the energy for exercise.

To answer your question re transition from NDT to synthetics, I can't convert T4-T3 very well so my T3 is always below range, but had been much better prior to peri on a 12 month NHS trial of T4-T3.  The doctor who took over after the trial didn't approve of T3 use & I was taken off it & back on T4 alone.  I quickly felt really unwell again, so went to a private doctor who put me on Armour.   We never found the right dose, possibly because the T3:T4 ratio is high compared with human thyroid hormone production.  Then the doctor who'd prescribed the Armour sadly suddenly died, coinciding with my starting the chaos of peri & as the NHS didn't support the use of NDT or T3, I had to go back on Thyroxine alone.  It was only postmenopause that I saw a new private doctor who put me straight back on synthetic T4-T3 & shortly afterwards started me on HRT.  So I didn't go from NDT straight to T4-T3 combi treatment. 

All I would say is if your thyroid symptoms are well controlled on NDT, you're sure you're not over or under-treated on it & you have the support of a good Endocrinologist, if you're understandably nervous of upsetting the apple cart I agree, now may not be the best time to change.  One thing maybe to bear in mind though, you'll know that we tend to need less thyroid replacement as we age, so if you're aware of that possibility, given over-treatment on thyroid meds can be difficult to distinguish from some meno symptoms (night sweats, flushing, palpitations, anxiety, insomnia . . .) & some of these can also occur on the wrong dose of HRT, perhaps wise to check your thyroid status with a TFT if ever you're not sure what's going on, assuming private testing is within your means.

Hope you get your blood results soon.
Wx

[ATB]

Thanks again.

Yes I’m reluctant to change right now but will bear in mind in the future when I’m settled on HRT, or even post meno. I’ve been on armour years with good results, I haven’t seen a specialist in a few years as I can’t afford it regularly, but I private test often and my antibodies have never been raised, but when diagnosed the other tests were bad and clearly hypothyroid. Last test I was feeling well and in a good place on every range. So I’ve done a Free T3 & free T4 test privately today. If it isn’t good then the only difference is HRT, so I’ll adjust. I’ve lowered it from 2 1/2 grains to 2 since March, started HRT last sept. I had a high T4 last test with a female hormone profile testing my sex hormones. If I have a high or low reading at any time, I adjust and then test every 3 months for a year after. I’m very careful about it so that’s why and because I don’t see a specialist yearly anymore, as I would like. I have been managing it ok myself but ideally I would see a private endo every year. My menopause specialist I see privately has an ok understanding of it and I can discuss it but it’s not ideal. My GP just doesn’t talk to me about it because they wouldn’t have put me on anything, my TSH wasn’t high enough at 4.5 but I was bedridden!

If I can get this burping and palpitations under control then it’s just my anxiety left and I feel I’m making progress there. 

[Wrensong]

What a difficult situation for you having no clinician in your corner for the thyroid.  If your T4 was high when last tested you'll know that (as well as menopause) could account for the anxiety & palpitations & this is where it gets tricky for menopausal women on thyroid replacement.   I hope your latest TFT helps you work out what's going on, but it's regrettable as you say, that you don't have the support of a good endocrinologist to see you through this confusing & difficult stage of life.  Take care & I wish you well with it.
Wx

[ATB]

Thought I would add another little update.
So, according to when I take Utrogestan, this would be day 9 of my cycle, and last 3 or 4 days the GERD almost gone, not really any palpitations, slight fluttering a little. My period comes a little early while taking Utrogestan, so according to that I’m day 12. I take Utrogestan every 2 weeks out of 4 though and stick to that regardless of my period. It is hard to know which phase of my cycle it is though, and whether I’m being affecting by lowering estrogen levels.
I am taking ACV with water before meals still, that does seem to help but I would be surprised if it’s that alone, and I have lowered my thyroid hormones again slightly in the last week too. So only time will tell, and if it happens again during Utrogestan then I know it’s related to that side of things and can discuss with my menopause doctor adjusting estrogen.
So today and last few days I’ve felt normal again and anxiety I haven’t really felt either. I need to try and feel like this all the time!
Still waiting on my thyroid test results.

[Marchlove]

Thank you for the update ATB, it’s really useful for us who also have thyroid issues.
I admire the way you systematically look at each issue and slowly work through each problem you encounter, especially as you are doing this on your own.
Thank you also Wrensong for your input, much appreciated.
It will be interesting to hear you results ATB if you don’t mind sharing.
X