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[Marchlove]

I came across this study on a product containing Agnus Castus.
The women in the study were not taking HRT.
You can buy the same product online so I looked at the reviews which were all very good in terms of stars but I can’t understand them as can’t speak Italian!
Perhaps someone who can could have a look at them and report back?
The study doesn’t say what time of day to take the product which would be interesting.

https://scientonline.org/open-access/clinical-activity-of-the-combination-of-isoflavones-agnus-castus-and-magnolia-estromineral-serena-plus-in-the-menopause.pdf

x

[Postmeno3]

Routinely used by medical herbalists, especially for sweats. 👍

[laszla]

I speak Italian but couldn't open the link... I take HRT and also Agnus Castus. When I first started HRT I stopped the Agnus Castus as there were a few sources that said one shouldn't take it if on HRT but I felt much worse without it so thought sod it and started taking it again.
Since then I've been to the Chelsea and Westminster/Panay clinic who have said it's absolutely fine for me to take it and that they really rate Agnus Castus (though I wouldnt take it mixed in with phytoestrogens if I were also on HRT)

[Marchlove]

Ah that’s interesting laszla thank you, I was wondering if it was ok to take with hrt.
Do you find it helps with progesterone intolerance? xx

[laszla]

Marchlove, absolutely it helps with the dreaded progesterone phase (I only take 100 mg for 10 days max but still hate it).
I was surprised to read that agnus enhances progesterone but the MS explained that it also triggers feel-good dopamine so that must be what does the trick. I will never stop taking it

[Marchlove]

Gosh, that’s so interesting!!
I don’t think many members realise this laszla!
Can you do a new thread as not many people have seen this one, telling members of your experience.
Might grab more attention if you called the thread something like “Progesterone intolerance- a way forward”
I think one of its many benefits is that it lowers prolactin which I believe is high in people with pms and especially PMDD.
I’m on continuous low dose progesterone, what dosage would you suggest?
What time of day do you take it?
Thank you xx

[Dawnp]

Hi Marchlove and Layla.
I have now got a packet of the tablets in the study. Was just about to take one when I noticed Lazla that the clinic said they shouldn’t be taken with phytoestrogens. I’m unsure about this so can either of you clarify for me whether it’s ok to take if I’m using Evorel patches?
I’ve also just started Provera and feel quite unwell on it so was hoping this would help. x

[Marchlove]

Hopefully laszla will return to help us more!
So what she was saying I think is don’t take the product I sent the link to if you’re also taking hrt, just take agnus castus on its own with hrt.
I think you should only take it in the morning as it lowers prolactin.
The dosage is a bit of a puzzle!
From what I’ve found online it seems to suggest that when taken in low doses (20mg-40mg) it has a progesterone effect but high has a estrogen effect.
I’ve not taken any yet as was hoping a more knowledgeable member might come along with more information regarding this. x

[Dawnp]

I think she couldn’t open the link. Gutted because I’m in a bad way and was pinning my hopes on that box. I wonder if it’s the soy isoflavines in it that you shouldn’t take with hrt then?
The Angus Castus dose in it is 40mg per day but just says 1 capsule per day on the box.
Will post the ingredients here in case Lazla sees it!

isoflavones 60 mg (genistein 30 mg and daidzein 30 mg); Lactobacillus sporogenes 1 billion spores; Magnolia officinal is bark extract 50 mg equivalent to honokiol 0.75 mg, Vitex agnus-castus L. fruit extract 40 mg equivalent to agnuside 0.2 mg, vitamin D3 5 μg, calcium 141 mg, at a dose of 1 tablet a day for 12 weeks.

[Dawnp]

Thought I would also post this here from the study. The last line seems to infer that women on hrt were only excluded so that they could tell what symptoms were improved by the Estromineral, but my interpretation could be wrong.

Soy isoflavones, the absorption of which is enhanced by the presence of lactobacilli [17], have a recognised activity on vasomotor symptoms, agnus castus acts on hot flushes and psychological symptoms [7] and magnolia acts on psychoaffective symptoms, in particular anxiety, irritability and insomnia. Women on HRT or who were simultaneously taking other products which could interfere with climacteric symptoms were excluded. 

[Marchlove]

Hi Dawnp

You might be overthinking it and that might be my fault by bringing extra issues in.
Sorry you’re in a bad way, it will pass, believe that, because it always does at some point.

It’s the soy isoflavones that are the issue I believe if you’re already taking hrt.

On balance as you’re on hrt I think it’s best not to take it, well at least long term. It’s up to you and what your gut is telling you as to whether you do a very short trial.

It’s a bit difficult for me to advise properly due to my limited experience of this herb but hopefully something I’ve said will help you. x

[Dawnp]

Thanks Marchlove. Yes, I’m overthinking everything at the mo!
I think I’ll maybe try a lowish dose of agnus castus on its own and see how I get on. x

[laszla]

Hi ladies, sorry for late reply,
In answer to your questions:
Marchlove I use a brand called premeeze, available on amazon, they are 400 mg tablets and I take one a day, usually in the first half of the day and my prog last thing at night. I told Chelsea and Westminster consultant exactly what I was taking and they were fine with it
I have in the past taken brands with 40 mg dose which also worked but I would absolutely avoid the 4mg ones available in UK shops like Holland and Barrett since they changed the laws on herbal medicine.

Dawn, regarding the phytoestrogens, the clinic actually did not tell me not to take them alongside HRT and agnus, it was that I concluded that it might be overkill and that if the hormones are being absorbed well (which is very much a work in progress for me) then I would not also need to take phytoestrogens in pills - it is also a financial consideration as the supplement bill adds up and the isaflavones aren't cheap but I am happy to spend on the agnus which gives me something the hormones do not and is a life saver for me (Marchlove I will try to make a post alerting people to its helpfulness)

That said, I have made an effort to top up phytoestrogens in my diet, eg fermented soya products (rather than plain soya as found in soya milk which is no good apparently in this context), but also sesame seeds, flax, even the humble oat apparently has got decent amounts of phytoestrogens. The fermented soya products for instance contains genestein which is in your supplement.
I don't suppose it would do any harm to try that supplement Dawn but for me at this stage I would rather isolate the agnus castus and just take that on top of my HRT - at least until I have upped my blood levels of estradiol. If HRT alone (with a bit of help from phytoestrogenic foods) doesn't raise my levels then I might look at adding an isoflavone supplement to the mix but I would ask Panay about this.

[Marchlove]

Thank you so much laszla, that is so helpful.
What a great forum this is when we can learn so much from other peoples experiences.
I will report back once I’ve given the Agnus Castus a fair trial x

[Dawnp]

Lazla that is so helpful. Thank you so much. Will order some now. Xx