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[applejack]

Hi

I'm still struggling with sleeplessness and waking up at 4am and aaargh! I also seem to be stupidly anxious at the moment, I mean, i'm an anxious sort of person at the best of times but it's crazy (lack of sleep isn't helping I suspect).

I don't really like taking too much medication so was wondering

1. My oestrogen level is lower than my menopause specialist would like. We're trying to fix that but if it's low, will that cause the anxiety (I know it effects insomnia)? If fixing the oestrogen fixes the anxiety I'll plough on with that and keep things simple

2.  If it doesn't fix it, would cbd oil help or does that interfere with HRT? Is this all some new fangled trend which is basically not worth bothering with or does it work?

3. My meno specialist mentioned trying an ssri for anxiety but I said no at the time, but it's got worse since then. Does this also help with sleeplessness? Are you stuck on it forever or could I take it short term and hope things calmed down once the sleep is better?

Not sleeping is just so awful as I'm sure a lot of you already know. I'm not keen on the idea of an ssri but I do trust the meno specialist and perhaps shouldn't have dismissed it so quickly.

I've had 6 months of crap since the patches suddenly stopped working and really would love to just feel calm and get some decent sleep. Is that too much to ask (yes, probably).

[CLKD]

Modern medication for mental health are different from the 'valium'-type prescribed years ago.

SSRI's can help anxiety.  They can also help ease flushing.  However, a dedicated anti-anxiety medication would be more appropriate.  My GP gave me Propranolol to ease early morning anxiety surges; the surges left me terrified.   

If the patch doesn't ease symptoms mayB you require a hike in dose? 

What's CBD?   

[VictoryV]

Hi Applejack, sorry to hear you’re struggling with broken sleep and anxiety. It’s great that you have a Menopause Specialist and had blood work done. I’d never had anxiety until perimeno but HRT sorted it out and I sleep well now.
I hope you get levels up/relief soon, keep going. Victoria.xx

[Nas]

Hi apple
Well my cocktail is a good quality full spectrum CBD oil, Amitriptyline, and a soy/ red clover and sage supplement from cbd brothers.
I’m off the HRT as I fear I have developed some nasty gynae issues which I need to sort out!

I am not interested in SSRI nasties.
Cbd can help if you persevere and get a decent quality.
Healing Cauldron 3.5% winterised is good, but pricey.

Hope you feel better soon 🙂

I can’t think of a worse time of life right now and we need to chuck all we can at it, to gain some sense of balance.

Xxx

[sheila99]

Those were exactly my peri symptoms. Never had any trouble with either anxiety or insomnia before and both cured by oestrogen. I've had to increase twice in the last 2/3 years (now v late peri) as my own oestrogen levels have dropped and symptoms returned. If these were your original symptoms perhaps you need to increase the dose. What dose are you on now and have you tried increasing?
 Sorry, can't help with the other options, I didn't need to try anything else (though it did take 3 months on hrt to go).

[CLKD]

SSRIs aren't nasties.  They saved my Life.

However, some alternatives are filled with things that won't do any good, so there may be very little active ingredient.  What do you expect CBD to do for you?  A good quality product is essential. 

[applejack]

Ok, so to answer the oestrogen dose question - I was on a 50 patch until June when everything went suddenly kaput and I started bleeding. Dr Currie recommended either increasing my utrogestan or reducing my oestrogen so I opted for the latter (went down to 25) and it was not the right decision as that's when everything fell to pieces and I stopped sleeping. I then went up to 75, then 100, then settled at 150 but the blood tests weren't showing much movement. I then had my polypectomy and had a coil fitted last month which seems (touch wood) to have sorted all of my bleeding problems. So we're just working on the oestrogen issue. I do wonder if that drop to 25 has been at the root of the problem but after 6 months, on such high doses, surely it would have eased back up by now?

HAving failed to improve on a 150 patch, menopause specialist said well, let's try gel in case it's a simple case of absorption, so I've been on four pumps (2 in the morning, 2 before bed) for about 3 weeks and honestly not getting on with it. I can't say it's made that much difference and I'm getting dizzy spells now.  harumph. I sent her a despairing email after about 3 days and she said best to stick with it for a bit longer, at least until the New Year (she's right, of course).

Those doses are pretty high, I think, which does make me wonder if i'm a lost cause. My sleep is terrible and I can't even remember my own name let alone anyone else's.  Ask me a question and it takes my brain about half an hour to process anything.  So, so tired and worrying about everything. Slightest thing and I'm shaking, heart rate like a piston engine when usually there's absolutely nothing wrong, everything is fine. I sailed along as happy as anything for 18 months and then splat.

CLKD, I think what I want CBD to do, or anything really, is to help me sleep again which I think is feeding into my anxiety. I don't want to get into a situation where I'm so desperate I'll grab at anything, though, which is why I'm on here as everyone is sane and sensible and have been through this kind of crap themselves

[Nas]

That’s your opinion on the SSRI medication CLKD and im glad they saved your life. They have   their place maybe and work for many people at varying doses. Just not for me, that’s all.

Cbd is natural and may or may not work, just like anything, including HRT. There are various cbd Facebook groups you can join for advice.

Amitriptyline helps me sleep.


Maybe reset your HRT apple. Start again and build up slowly?

[CLKD]

That doesn't answer what CBD actually is  and how good a product it might be. 

[sheila99]

I think she's right you should try it for longer, I saw no improvement until the second month. I think you're also right that they feed each other to make everything worse, that's exactly how I felt. It's a bit disconcerting you've been on 150 and no improvement. There are some people who don't absorb well transdermally and you may have to consider oral or an oestrogen implant. Do you have any underlying health issues that could affect absorption? If you search for posts by TC you'll find she had similar problems. Hers turned to be because of another health condition but I can't remember what it was and I can't find the post now.
  Does anyone else remember what it was?
  For the sleep you could try melatonin, that was going to be my next step but fortunately I didn't need it. Another thought would be if the mirena doesn't agree with you.
 

[applejack]

Hi Sheila - the mirena has only just gone in and the oestrogen problem goes back to June, so it's probably not the coil. I'll search for TC posts, thanks for the tip!

I'm generally ok otherwise - I do my 30 mins exercise three times a week, my weight is just about ok, no other conditions I'm aware of. I guess i'm quite lucky in that respect. I drink maybe a little more than I should but so much less than I used to and going down all the time. I eat sensibly. Absolute ton of emotional disruption this year but again, most of it happened after the sleep went kaput. I snore though, and it can be quite bad (but I'm using snorelab and it doesn't seem to correlate with when I wake up so I don't think it's neccessarily that, and I've always snored anyway).

I'm reassured that you said it took you two months, that's encouraged me to keep going with it.

wrt melatonin - I've heard of people taking that but I assumed it was prescription only?

I'm a little confused by comments re the ssri, I thought amitriptyline was an ssri. She was suggesting something more for anxiety than sleep as far as anti depressants were concerned (maybe she meant amitriptyline, I'm not sure, she didn't mention a brand).

[CLKD]

It can take 3-6 months B4 one feels better.  HRT isn't a cure as the body rarely gets where it is in a hurry so the body has to take up the replacement.

If U put too much into your body you won't know what is/not helping 

[Jenna]

I think she's right you should try it for longer, I saw no improvement until the second month. I think you're also right that they feed each other to make everything worse, that's exactly how I felt. It's a bit disconcerting you've been on 150 and no improvement. There are some people who don't absorb well transdermally and you may have to consider oral or an oestrogen implant. Do you have any underlying health issues that could affect absorption? If you search for posts by TC you'll find she had similar problems. Hers turned to be because of another health condition but I can't remember what it was and I can't find the post now.
  Does anyone else remember what it was?
  For the sleep you could try melatonin, that was going to be my next step but fortunately I didn't need it. Another thought would be if the mirena doesn't agree with you.
 

Are you thinking of Gilbert’s syndrome, sheila99?

https://www.menopausematters.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,44439.msg712286.html#msg712286

[sheila99]

I think she's right you should try it for longer, I saw no improvement until the second month. I think you're also right that they feed each other to make everything worse, that's exactly how I felt. It's a bit disconcerting you've been on 150 and no improvement. There are some people who don't absorb well transdermally and you may have to consider oral or an oestrogen implant. Do you have any underlying health issues that could affect absorption? If you search for posts by TC you'll find she had similar problems. Hers turned to be because of another health condition but I can't remember what it was and I can't find the post now.
  Does anyone else remember what it was?
  For the sleep you could try melatonin, that was going to be my next step but fortunately I didn't need it. Another thought would be if the mirena doesn't agree with you.
 

Are you thinking of Gilbert’s syndrome, sheila99?

https://www.menopausematters.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,44439.msg712286.html#msg712286

  Yes, it's Gilbert's. There's a later post where she was referred to C&W for an oestrogen implant and I think finally that she wasn't going to get anywhere with hrt.