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[Alicess]

I' ve found this article on a MTF forum ( male-to-female transgenders) and I think it might be important for us, cis-women. Cis means comfortabel- in- skin women.
It states that oral micronized progesterone like Urtrogestan and Prometrium achieve very low levels of progesterone and  has only weak progestogenic effects. And it's mostly metabolized to allopregnanolone and pregnanolone.

https://transfemscience.org/articles/oral-p4-low-levels/

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allopregnanolone

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pregnanolone

Alicess

[Hurdity]

Hi Alicess - thanks for posting but I'm not sure what point you are trying to make? I haven't read the links but responding to your comments.

Progesterone is progesterone - it performs its function in our (women's) bodies perfectly well. When we take HRT we need to take it in order to protect our uterus. Trying to recreate the conditions in oiur bodies when we were producing it naturally is impossible - because the ovaries produce pulses of it regularly throughout the day when needed (mentrual cycle and pregnancy) and levels are kept stable.

It is metabolised quickly in the body when taken artificially so when we take it to protect our womb lining (especially orally) we need to take large quantities of it at high doses in order that sufficient reaches the womb lining where it is needed to prevent thickening. It is the metabolic by-products of progesterone (from large doses taken orally) which are responsible for some of the adverse side effects.

I have no idea about transgender women and why they would take progesterone but this is not relevant to us. They don't have a womb so no need for progesterone.

In terms of progestogenic effects - it is a truism to say that progesterone is the ultimate in having progestogenic effects - not weak at all, but it is the preparation and dose which makes the difference in terms of the womb lining. Other progestogens do have greater affinity for the receptors in the womb lining and therefore protect it better from thickening - ie the artificial ones such as norethisterone, levonorgestrel and MPA (Provera) - but no-one would want to take these for any other reason ( except contraception of course).

Maybe a red herring, ie the trans info?

Hurdity x

[Uptick]

Thank you, Alicess, lots of interesting information, it will take a while to read all those articles though. Have you read them all? I'd be glad to discuss details of these studies.

Hurdity, progesterone is important for gender dysphoria https://academic.oup.com/jcem/article/104/4/1181/5270376
'It is important to add progesterone to estradiol and an antiandrogen in transgender women’s CHT. Progesterone may add the following: (i) more rapid feminization, (ii) decreased endogenous testosterone production, (iii) optimal breast maturation to Tanner stages 4/5, (iv) increased bone formation, (v) improved sleep and vasomotor symptom control, and (vi) cardiovascular health benefits.'

I understand you're not interested, but this is good science and it adds evidence that vaginal progesterone is better than oral for keeping the endometrium safe, without so many side effects caused by the neurosteroid allopregnanolone and pregnanolone, not to mention that more reliable progesterone assays (immunoassay v liquid chromatography/mass spectrometry) are always welcome

IMHO it doesn't matter where the info came from, providing is evidence based info.

[Alicess]

Thank you, Uptick and Belle 🌷

Hurdity, maybe you should read the links first?  I've learned a lot from transgenders and I find them very knowledgeable. Maybe more so then us, cis-women.

I can wholeheartedly agree with Uptick

"Hurdity, progesterone is important for gender dysphoria https://academic.oup.com/jcem/article/104/4/1181/5270376
'It is important to add progesterone to estradiol and an antiandrogen in transgender women’s CHT. Progesterone may add the following: (i) more rapid feminization, (ii) decreased endogenous testosterone production, (iii) optimal breast maturation to Tanner stages 4/5, (iv) increased bone formation, (v) improved sleep and vasomotor symptom control, and (vi) cardiovascular health benefits.'

I understand you're not interested, but this is good science and it adds evidence that vaginal progesterone is better than oral for keeping the endometrium safe, without so many side effects caused by the neurosteroid allopregnanolone and pregnanolone, not to mention that more reliable progesterone assays (immunoassay v liquid chromatography/mass spectrometry) are always welcome

IMHO it doesn't matter where the info came from, providing is evidence based info"

Still not managing the "quote" thing yet...

Uptick, I've read most of the informatie and sientific research, I just don't have the time to do more research regarding progesterone at the moment. I'm trying to find answers ( and solutions ) regarding my problems with estradiol. I will keep sharing usefull information though; it's important we educate ourselves.

Alicess X

[Uptick]

Hi Alicess, I haven't been feeling good so had to stop reading the articles. What problems do you have with estradiol? Are you discussing them on another thread?