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[Loo53]

I've been on Tostran now for over 2 weeks and to be honest apart from the odd pimple and more chin hair growth although that could be paranoia I'm getting little benefit from it and I feel strange, not the usual self Id grown accustomed to 15 years on from menopause.  I don't care about the libido side anymore as I don't have a partner anyway but the gynaecologist prescribed it because I have zero libido. I had bags of energy before I began taking this stuff and now I'm so tired. I think if this is the natural way  you're supposed to be then I'm not messing any further with it. I do take estriol vaginally and I've  had a good response to that.Ive also been getting constant headaches every day and an increase in awful full body muscle stiffness which is getting me down too.  Anyhow I'm doing a process of elimination to see if it really was the Tostran causing the fatigue and other symptoms and will let you know. 

[Dotty]

Hi which hrt are you taking with the Tostran?

[Loo53]

Just vaginal estriol 😐

[Dotty]

I thought you need to take hrt and build up a good level of oestrogen before taking testosterone . There has been a thread on here about it recently. The tiredness could be a normal menopause symptom and nothing to do with the testosterone.

[Dotty]

https://www.menopausematters.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,39861.0.html

Have a look at this ...

[Daisydot]

Good advice dotty that's what my consultant had me do,build up the oestrogen levels then slowly I've to introduce the testosterone now,half squirt first week then increase to one squirt,every other day.
If your libido isn't bothering you then I'd say discontinue anyway,unless there's another reason the gynie prescribed it.
I'd want a chat with her again to clarify.good luck xx

[Lanzalover]

As far as I am aware you have to take oestrogen if you are using Testesterone. ie tablet patch or gel.
Vaginal oestrogen is only local.
Why were you prescribed Tostran ?

Lanzalover x

[Annie0710]

I would personally leave off the Tostran and either a) start oestrogen and add T after a few months or b) only take your vaginal oestrogen

X

[Loo53]

I agree I'm leaving off the Tostran. I've been absolutely fine until I started taking this product and being 15 years post menopause my energy levels were very good. I thought I'd be offered a patch but no I didn't get offered it. I'll stick with the vaginal get only for the future. I was constantly getting headaches every day as well. I don't know why I was given Tostran without an HRT patch but the gynaecologist said to me that some estrogen does get into the blood stream from the vaginal cream and seemed to think that was enough.  Thanks Ladies for all your input 😃

[Annie0710]

I heard that using bahinal cream/pessary every day for a year would equal one standard oestrogen dose so definitely wouldn't balance out oestrogen/testosterone ratio

I think you're wise if you were well beforehand x

[Loo53]

Just to let you all know I've missed 3 doses of Tostran and I feel better already....the tiredness and permanent stabby headache has gone and I feel back to my normal self. I won't be touching that stuff again.  I appreciate I only had 2 weeks on it but for me it was 2 weeks too long. Bye bye Tostran! 

[Hurdity]

Hi there Loo53

Tiredness is not a side effect of testosterone - quite the reverse so maybe your tiredness was coincidental? However if it gave you a stabby migraine type headache - this is associated with fatigue ie the migraine. Migraine is a potential side effect (as reported for Intrinsa T patches for women - now discontinued).

I am flabbergasted that a gynaecologist could think that vaginal estriol in any way gives you sufficient oestrogen levels in the body. It only weakly binds to some oestrogen receptors ( can't remember which) compared to estradiol, and it isn't even metabolised to estradiol in the body.

It is frankly worrying that someone in this position could think to give you this when androgen levels tend to become more dominant in post-menopausal women! Here is a leaflet about T replacement: http://www.chelwest.nhs.uk/services/womens-health-services/gynaecology-services/menopause-and-pms-clinics/links/Testosteronereplacementforfemaleandrogendeficiency092017CWAGREED.pdf and some info here: https://menopausedoctor.co.uk/what-is-the-menopause/testosterone/

If you had lots of energy before you started it, and didn't get muscle aches etc after exercise and fatigue then apart from libido it may well be that your levels were not that low? It is definitley not advised to take it on its own in post-menopause without having adequate levels of oestrogen as Dotty and Annie0710 say.

Are you taking any other medication that might lower libido eg anti-depressants maybe?

I am wondering why you went to the gynae in the first place ie what symptoms were you seeking help with if you are not bothered about libido?

I don't think you mentioned your age but Tibolone/Livial would have been a better product to prescribe - because it does give you a type of oestrogen as well as a type of testosterone. it is often prescribed for post-menopausal women as it is the only licensed androgen product for boosting libido!

Anyway - glad you're feeling better now

Hurdity x

[Loo53]

Hi there Loo53

Tiredness is not a side effect of testosterone - quite the reverse so maybe your tiredness was coincidental? However if it gave you a stabby migraine type headache - this is associated with fatigue ie the migraine. Migraine is a potential side effect (as reported for Intrinsa T patches for women - now discontinued).

I am flabbergasted that a gynaecologist could think that vaginal estriol in any way gives you sufficient oestrogen levels in the body. It only weakly binds to some oestrogen receptors ( can't remember which) compared to estradiol, and it isn't even metabolised to estradiol in the body.

It is frankly worrying that someone in this position could think to give you this when androgen levels tend to become more dominant in post-menopausal women! Here is a leaflet about T replacement: http://www.chelwest.nhs.uk/services/womens-health-services/gynaecology-services/menopause-and-pms-clinics/links/Testosteronereplacementforfemaleandrogendeficiency092017CWAGREED.pdf and some info here: https://menopausedoctor.co.uk/what-is-the-menopause/testosterone/

If you had lots of energy before you started it, and didn't get muscle aches etc after exercise and fatigue then apart from libido it may well be that your levels were not that low? It is definitley not advised to take it on its own in post-menopause without having adequate levels of oestrogen as Dotty and Annie0710 say.

Are you taking any other medication that might lower libido eg anti-depressants maybe?

I am wondering why you went to the gynae in the first place ie what symptoms were you seeking help with if you are not bothered about libido?

I don't think you mentioned your age but Tibolone/Livial would have been a better product to prescribe - because it does give you a type of oestrogen as well as a type of testosterone. it is often prescribed for post-menopausal women as it is the only licensed androgen product for boosting libido!

Anyway - glad you're feeling better now

Hurdity x

Hi sorry for the late reply. I’m now 67 and have stopped taking everything.

Yes the Gynae in Manchester said it was okay to take tostran as he said some vaginal estrogen still seeps into the bloodstream.  Told to only take it 2 a week tiny dot of the stuff.

I was referred for lack of ability to orgasm and blunted orgasm etc. Sorry but that’s important to me , and referred for being dead from the waist down as well as energy levels.  If I was a man at my age I would most certainly be prescribed the little blue pill long ago. I’m not prepared to accept the dead from the waist down as my menopausal lot in life. There are not many pleasures left in my life at my age and to be robbed of this is annoying.

No other meds except a PPI.

I might try the Trib.

[Hurdity]

Well I made my post some years ago now Loo53! Absolutely no need to apologise in any way. Of course it's important and must be very frustrating for you. In the first post you did say you weren't bothered about libido but if it's imortant to you now several years down the line, then yes perhaps revisit. It is just that current thinking is, as already pointed out on the thread,  still only to replace testosterone after oestrogen levels have been restored in some way and the minute amount of estriol from vaginal oestrogen is most certainly not sufficient - and is a different type of oestrogen as I pointed out in May 2018.

I'm not sure it would be advised/advisable to start an HRT tablet like Tibolone at your age - usually women who start systemic HRT post 60 are advised to start on a very low dose oestrogen patch initially but by all means get a referral and see what a (preferably different!) gynae suggests. After all some of us may live more than 40 years post-menopause so weighing up the benefits vs the risks has to be seen in this context.

Good luck and let us know what you decide or the outcome.

Hurdity x