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[Flossy]

I use Cerave eye repair cream as I have sensitive skin under eyes, not sure it helps! But I have noticed that this baggy under eye thing has definitely improved since I started HRT a few months ago.

[KaraShannon]

This is really interesting because I've noticed this in the past week.  I did say on this forum once before that I noticed crow's feet suddenly appear after I was using vagifem and stopped.  I know it goes against the theory of that only being local, but I've been having some weird effects suggesting for me it might be getting into my system more (migraines, sensitivity to sound, very deep sleep, etc).

But in the past week it's just a 'bags under the eyes' look that I don't usually notice.  I'm having quite a lot of 'low oestrogen' problems this week.  I'm on Evorel Sequi and not sure it's helping this month, at least as much as it had been.  Do people get higher dose patches as they go along?

Hope you find something that works for you Sleepy123

KaraShannon - I know this is a bit off topic, so I'll make a new post, but I'm really interested in your observation that vaginal oestrogen can have some systemic effects...

No probs, I just returned to this anyway and I have more to say on this subject for the original poster.

But yes, for me vaginal oestrogen reliably brings about migraine, sensitivity to sound and a dizzy feeling.  I'm still trying to work out what to do about it.  I manage on a 'crumb' of the vaginal tablet but any more than that used and I am way too uncomfortable all day, really badly with postural hypotension etc. 

My oestrogen was way too high though, so it might just be that.  I'm gradually reducing the patch, then I will measure my oestrogen levels and when they are in the normal range I'll gradually try the vaginal oestrogen again.  I did have a time when I could use it, so here's hoping.

[KaraShannon]

There’s an interesting and wide ranging video by Zoe here https://youtu.be/LJC0igfCywE?si=30ZVyuPSOtI6GS0x
Zoe are science backed and impartial. My takeaways were nutritious diet, water and creams containing vit c and retinol are the only things to scientifically help. 
I use a lovely vit c eye serum by The Ordinary. The Boots No7 Damage Reversal, with spf 40 has helped my menopausal skin, especially the dark patches. It’s quite heavy though and needs time to absorb before putting make up on.  They also do a cream especially for menopausal skin, so I wonder if they do an eye cream too? I can’t help feeling it’s the same as their other creams, but with a menopause mark up 

This is interesting.  I've also heard that hyalauronic acid works, though it's not supposed to be used near the eyes I did hear a longevity scientist say he did, he was just careful not to get it in the eyes.

Another thing I'm wondering about is oestrogen cream for the face.  If there's such a thing.  I vaguely remember coming across it on the net some years back when I was worried about this.

Interestingly for the original poster, I stopped noticing it and I think it went away (the baggy eyes thing).  If I notice anything like that about my appearance it's always when I'm on the combined (progesterone) patches, not the estradiol, so I'm imagining it's a low oestrogen thing (or a progesterone induced thing). 

[Jules]

There’s an interesting and wide ranging video by Zoe here https://youtu.be/LJC0igfCywE?si=30ZVyuPSOtI6GS0x
Zoe are science backed and impartial. My takeaways were nutritious diet, water and creams containing vit c and retinol are the only things to scientifically help. 
I use a lovely vit c eye serum by The Ordinary. The Boots No7 Damage Reversal, with spf 40 has helped my menopausal skin, especially the dark patches. It’s quite heavy though and needs time to absorb before putting make up on.  They also do a cream especially for menopausal skin, so I wonder if they do an eye cream too? I can’t help feeling it’s the same as their other creams, but with a menopause mark up 

This is interesting.  I've also heard that hyalauronic acid works, though it's not supposed to be used near the eyes I did hear a longevity scientist say he did, he was just careful not to get it in the eyes.

Another thing I'm wondering about is oestrogen cream for the face.  If there's such a thing.  I vaguely remember coming across it on the net some years back when I was worried about this.

Interestingly for the original poster, I stopped noticing it and I think it went away (the baggy eyes thing).  If I notice anything like that about my appearance it's always when I'm on the combined (progesterone) patches, not the estradiol, so I'm imagining it's a low oestrogen thing (or a progesterone induced thing).

Hyalauronic acid is supposed to plump up the skin. Honestly I've tried all sorts. I might have looked worse if I'd not used anti aging products but aging does get you in the end. Sun damage, gravity and estrogen dropping off all contribute. The best advice I was given is to always wear a spf 30 at least even on dull days and in winter because our skin gets damage from UVA all year round. I never go out without some on my face. Wish I'd fine that 30 years ago though and stayed out of the sun.

[KaraShannon]

Jules I agree, hyalauronic acid plumps the skin but this scientist isn't into cosmetics, so I was surprised he was using it.  So I looked into it and its actually a longevity compound (though they really need to know how to get us to ingest it to get the benefit, but still he must think there's some effect through a bit of skin absorption maybe).

Yes ageing gets us in the end, the thing that bothered me was a sudden noticing of changes overnight and then an improvement again on hrt.  That seems to be something within our control. 

Glad you reminded me of sunscreen, I don't really use it because I figured I need the vitamin D from the sun more than I need wrinkle free skin and I don't go out in it enough to get burned.  I may rethink that though.

[Jules]

Jules I agree, hyalauronic acid plumps the skin but this scientist isn't into cosmetics, so I was surprised he was using it.  So I looked into it and its actually a longevity compound (though they really need to know how to get us to ingest it to get the benefit, but still he must think there's some effect through a bit of skin absorption maybe).

Yes ageing gets us in the end, the thing that bothered me was a sudden noticing of changes overnight and then an improvement again on hrt.  That seems to be something within our control. 

Glad you reminded me of sunscreen, I don't really use it because I figured I need the vitamin D from the sun more than I need wrinkle free skin and I don't go out in it enough to get burned.  I may rethink that though.

There is the vitamin D thing of course  but its still absorbed in part even with sunscreen on. The sun is very damaging to the skin, aging and cancer. My dad had loads removed from his face, ive two friends with it and my sister has her her first one. She was given a 12 months wait for removal,  apparently there are so many presenting with skin cancers and not enough skin doctors.

[KaraShannon]

Interesting, Jules, I didn't know vit d was still absorbed partly even with sunscreen. 

Skin cancer is a serious concern I agree 

[Jules]

Interesting, Jules, I didn't know vit d was still absorbed partly even with sunscreen. 

Skin cancer is a serious concern I agree 

Take a vitamin D supplement.  We all should be as we don't get enough sunlight to provide it naturally.