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Author Topic: How to take Utrogestan  (Read 4115 times)

Sal333

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How to take Utrogestan
« on: September 10, 2020, 08:13:08 PM »

Hi everyone,  I’m a new member. My story so far.
I’m now 47 & I started to feel like a different person around September 2017, symptoms of fatigue, tingling/numb fingers/toes, hair loss,aching muscles, low mood, brain fog etc but what finally made me visit Gp was the racing heart/shortness of breath which would happen just sitting down doing nothing! I thought it’s just not right so finally went in the January, done a lot of blood work, advised on possible perimenopause also said they wanted to repeat bloods in 4 months as it was showing just over the scale for under active thyroid! I battled on until May, more bloods it had gone just under, so good news , however still all my symptoms! Spoke about hrt but I wasn’t 100% as wanted to do a bit of research into types, in the meantime more bloods
 advised IM sub clinical hypothyroidism, so monitoring it, & my folate  had dropped below range. So in February 2020 I started 3month course of folic acid, I decided to try hrt & requested Oestrogel & utrogestan to try for 3 months, in mean time Covid struck when I was needing more, a different Gp called me, I advised I didn’t feel any different, so he suggest to stop hrt & folic get more bloods, outcome was thyroid raised again so said to try 25mg levothyroxine, been doing this for last 4 months, honestly feel no different! 🙈 so different Gp this week called said to go back on hrt & more bloods! Thyroid has gone into suitable range 👍🏻 Picked up prescription & got a mix of oestrogel & oestrodose!!! 🤷🏻‍♀️Then discovers on google the controversy  on this! Low & behold I checked old pump I had & it was actually oestrodose with oestrogel sticker over it! Maybe just a coincidence why I never felt any benefit. Now I’m still very regular with my periods but utrogestan says to take 100mg daily days 1-25 on a 28 day cycle! I assumed I would be the 2x200mg 12days, has she made a mistake? If not what are the benefits this way? I’m to use 2 pumps of oestrogel.
I apologise for long winded post! Xx
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Hurdity

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Re: How to take Utrogestan
« Reply #1 on: September 11, 2020, 08:44:40 PM »

Hi Sal333

 :welcomemm:

Sorry to hear about your symptoms and problems both with thyroid issues and menopause.

So the levothyroxine hasn't improved your symptoms despite TSH now being in the normal range? I cant help with this but there can be a problem with conversion of T4 to T3 and I think this might cause TSH to drop after taking thyroxine even though there is insuffcient T3. I might be wrong there though. If you want help with the thyroid issue - there are a number of members who have also underactive thyroid and know a lot about it so maybe post now in All Things Menopause with something in the title to attract their attention? Member Wrensong will know! 

In terms of the HRT - if you are peri-menopausal then then you take the utrogestan 200 mg x 12 days per 28 cycle (if that is your normal cycle length). You haven't mentioned periods. It is also possible to take it 100 mg x 25 days although this is generally for women who are post-menopausal or very sporadic periods.

When you say you are very regular with your periods - how regular? Have you missed any? Has your cycle varied in length at all?

As for the oestrodose/oestrogel issue - do ignore that. There is some menopause celeb making a song and dance about it and causing women to get worried when in fact Oestrodose is just the name given to Oestrogel made by the same company - but just other countries call it something different. All made by Besins. There is nothing to suggest it's different - at least not consistently different - but there potentially could be an issuie with some batches, but these should be reported. Otherwise it's all just 0.06% estradiol gel - exactly the same ingredients etc. This will not be the reason for your not feeling any different. Either it's the thyroid issue or you're not ready yet for HRT. Do give it a try - the gel whatever it is and see if you feel any different after 3 months but I would also pursue the thyroid issue too.eg do you get T3 tested and have you been tested for Hashimoto's too?

Hope that helps a little - but do ask other specific questions on the main board if you need further help.

All the best

Hurdity x

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Sal333

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Re: How to take Utrogestan
« Reply #2 on: September 12, 2020, 06:57:57 AM »

Hi Hurdity, thanks for your reply, my periods are usually around every 25-30 days, I keep track as haven’t had to take contraceptive for around 15 years, as had one ovary removed & sterilised due to a cyst.
Yes everything I’ve read/searched online For the Utrogestan seems to be for taking
Several days mid cycle for 10-14 days! It’s a mindfield isn’t it!

Never had t3 checked, it’s always TSH & free T4, in November ‘19 from what I’m reading they did a thyroid peroxidase antibody TPO added to my test, is that for hasimoto? It does say negative.
I did ask the nurse last week who took my bloods, I’ve never had free T3 tested is there a reason for that? Her reply was,  they used to & it’s usually down to the labs! 🤷🏻‍♀️

Thanks Xx

« Last Edit: September 12, 2020, 07:07:41 AM by Sal333 »
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Wrensong

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Re: How to take Utrogestan
« Reply #3 on: September 12, 2020, 08:56:02 AM »

Hi Sal333,  :welcomemm:
I see you've had a helpful reply from Hurdity already  :).  Just wanted to ask a bit about your thyroid if that's OK.  When last tested did they give you your blood results?  If you can post these with their ref ranges that would help us think about whether the thyroid condition might be behind your symptoms.  TSH & T4 won't tell us how efficiently your body is converting the Thyroxine into the active form (T3), but you are right the NHS usually won't test T3 these days as it's considered unnecessary for hypothyroid patients if TSH is within range.  If your TSH is only just within range i.e. still fairly high, it's possible you might feel better for a little more Thyroxine, but this is something your GP would need to agree to.

I'm also not sure from your post how long ago your last TFT was?

To answer your question about the TPO test, it's for one of a number of kinds of antibody that may be present in autoimmune thyroid disease.  The following link explains a bit about it.

https://thyroiduk.org/getting-a-diagnosis/thyroid-testing-info/thyroid-antibodies/?v=79cba1185463

Wx
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Sal333

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Re: How to take Utrogestan
« Reply #4 on: September 12, 2020, 07:23:28 PM »

Hi Wrensong thank you also for your response. Here’s the dates/results I have.
              TSH.       FREE T4
08/16.     3.4           12.6
01/18.     4.22         12
05/18.     3.62         14.6
05/19.     4.58         12.6
11/19.     4.8           13.6     (6.1) TPO
05/20.     5.92         13
09/20.     3.15
 
Looks like they didn’t test the Free T4 on my last ones 🙈 surely that would be standard as these are the first bloods taken since starting the Levo in May 🤷🏻‍♀️
and I’ve never had Free T3 tested,
The ranges are
TSH.      (0.27-4.2)
Free T4  (11-25)

Thanks xx
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Wrensong

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Re: How to take Utrogestan
« Reply #5 on: September 12, 2020, 08:35:22 PM »

Thanks Sal333.  Will come back to this tomorrow.
Wx
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Sal333

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Re: How to take Utrogestan
« Reply #6 on: September 12, 2020, 08:54:28 PM »

Thank you Wrensong for your time

Xx
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Wrensong

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Re: How to take Utrogestan
« Reply #7 on: September 12, 2020, 08:57:39 PM »

Bless you Sal - I haven't done anything - just my brain's already in bed & waiting for me to go up!
Wx
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Wrensong

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Re: How to take Utrogestan
« Reply #8 on: September 13, 2020, 10:13:03 AM »

Hi again Sal333,

after rereading your original post & looking at your TFT results I'm sorry but the picture is a bit muddy :o!  So I have some more questions if that's OK.

Low folate can be a consequence of hypothyroidism & I think both conditions could give rise to the symptoms you describe here

Quote
fatigue, tingling/numb fingers/toes, hair loss,aching muscles, low mood, brain fog etc but what finally made me visit Gp was the racing heart/shortness of breath which would happen just sitting down doing nothing

But the low folate finding is making it difficult to get an idea of whether it's straightforward hypothyroidism behind the lot (the folate included).

So you were prescribed a 3-month course of folic acid from Feb, then that was stopped, is that right?  Was your folate tested & found to be back within range at the end of the course?  I'm wondering whether your GP is wanting to see whether treating the thyroid will keep your folate within range for the future, which hopefully it should given adequate thyroid replacement over time, assuming there's no other reason for the low folate.

Your Free T4 has been lowish for around 4 years then, according to the results you posted & your TSH has wavered in & out of range over the same period.  That's a long time to have a fairly low level of thyroid hormone in your system so I'm not surprised you've felt pretty under par  :hug:.  But it's standard practice not to treat while TSH is still more or less within range as no-one wants to start a patient on lifelong medication if there's a chance the condition is temporary.  I think your GP was right to start you on Thyroxine recently though, given your persistent symptoms & TSH above ref range over several months.

Can I ask do you have other signs of low thyroid such as weight gain, fluid retention, disproportionate coldness, eyebrow loss or sluggish tummy?

Your latest TSH @ 3.15 might not be low enough for you to feel well.  Some patients, especially when younger, do best with a pretty low TSH, but it's very individual & a good doctor will take into consideration how you feel rather than just going on blood results.  Increasing your Thyroxine slightly might improve your symptoms, but you would need to do this with your GP's approval.  A slight change in dose can have quite a marked effect on blood results & on how we feel.  As you are already on a very low dose it could be tricky increasing it without giving you too much, but I wonder whether another 12.5mcg every 3rd day might bring your TSH down over time, enough for you to feel better.  If not, then with your GP's agreement maybe 25/37.5mcg on alternate days.  If your 25mcg tablets are scored you should be able to split them with a tablet splitter (from a pharmacy) to get the 12.5mcg dose.  Alternatively if you are on TEVA brand these come in 12.5mcg tablets so no faffing around or wastage trying to split crumbly T4 tablets into halves! ::) :)

Another thought first - did your GP ask you to have the bloods done before you took that day's dose of Thyroxine?  My Endocrinologist's standing instructions are no thyroid medication on day of testing until afterwards.  This is thought to give a better indication of background thyroid levels.  In other words if you had your thyroid meds that day before the test, that would likely have given a lower TSH result &  had they tested it, higher T4, not doing you any favours if you need a higher dose of replacement to be asymptomatic.

I think the reason they didn't test T4 last time was probably because your TSH was back in range & they would assume this is because the Thyroxine is correcting your low T4 level.  TSH alone is often considered enough if that's within ref range, but I agree it would be reassuring to know the T4 level especially in the initial stages of treatment. 

It is unfortunate the NHS rarely tests T3 for hypo patients these days, as there is a small subgroup (around 15%) who don't convert Thyroxine into the active form very efficiently & that can leave us with persistent symptoms though our TSH & T4 show optimal levels.  If you find that getting your TSH down further doesn't make you feel better in time & your folate has been corrected, I would push for a T3 test & if your GP's hands are tied on that I would try to go private for one if that's within your means.
Wx
« Last Edit: September 13, 2020, 10:37:28 AM by Wrensong »
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Sal333

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Re: How to take Utrogestan
« Reply #9 on: September 13, 2020, 01:09:55 PM »

Hi Wrensong,
To be honest it was myself who brought up the concern of the dropping folate from my blood tests, as they were not concerned as it was still within range, even when it dropped under range! I requested to take it to see if it made a difference. As I had previously said about stomach/bowel issues bloating etc, I believe I may possibly have a Sensitivity to gluten, as when I’ve tried eliminating I do feel better, they did test this in 08/17 which at that time I had been eliminating as I was going on holidays & wanted to get rid of the stomach bloat 🤷🏻‍♀️ So test was negative. So drs have never looked any further into this.

So shortly after this is where my symptoms have progressed, so done a lot of research to what/why my symptoms, To discover the connection between gut health & thyroid so one is effecting the other. I brought this up with the dr saying is it my gut effecting the thyroid & the reason I’m not absorbing the folate? 🤷🏻‍♀️ I even paid private in 08/19 to a gastroenterologist, which to be honest was no real help, as he advised with my gut issues he said just continue what your doing, with regards to thyroid looks like your Gp is monitoring, & menopause I know nothing about.
It’s so frustrating as meno/thyroid & intolerances have a lot of the same symptoms, & I really just want to get to the bottom of which is actually the issue,so I can try to sort it,  as I don’t want to be taking meds for things which
isn’t really the issue🤷🏻‍♀️
I’m so glad I go in & get these results printed off as I’m looking through them at ranges & some that are below or high, they’ve never brought these up.
Folate I took for 3 months from February, now this is interesting as on phone appointment last week it wasn’t mentioned, as probably as folate was in range, may bloods after the 3 month coarse raised to 20, sept bloods folate dropped to 3.7, also now noticing my monocytes have just pipped over as high this hasn’t been mentioned either! 😩

          Folate.     B12.      Monocytes
Range  (3-).    (180-900).  (0.2-0.8)

08/16  6.9.      430.          0.8
01/18. 3.1.      299.          0.7
05/19. 2.7.      380.          0.7
02/20. 2.4.      518.          0.9
05/20. 20.       N/a.          0.9
09/20. 3.7       N/a.          N/a

I just want to be normal again! 🙊🙈😂.

Xx

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Wrensong

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Re: How to take Utrogestan
« Reply #10 on: September 13, 2020, 04:55:05 PM »

Sal333, thanks for the clarification about the folate testing history.  Wrt the gluten-free diet, there seems to be increasing thought that it's helpful in hypothyroidism so if your gut feeling (sorry - no pun intended) is that you are better on GF then providing your diet is still balanced I'd say that might be helpful to your overall health, or at least it's probably worth persevering with to see.  I'm on a long term wheat-free, low gluten diet, primarily for digestive issues & I do feel better for it.

I hope you manage to make some progress with the thyroid/folate situation & HRT & soon start to feel much better.
Wx
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Sal333

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Re: How to take Utrogestan
« Reply #11 on: September 13, 2020, 08:22:36 PM »

Thank you so much Wrensong for your advice, it’s a mind field isn’t it, yes I try to keep to a minimum with the gluten/wheat which helps as I can seem to take a little.

I think as I’ve never been one to go to the gps unless I really have to, the amount of times since jan 2018 I feel like a hypochondriac! 🙈 gone from going to gym at 6am 4-5 days a week to nothing as so tired I just turned into someone different! No energy low mood etc! I still can’t believe it!
The thought of having to speak to gp again & ask for more bloods for T3 & why T4 wasn’t done makes me feel I shouldn’t be! Especially as I just queried the prescription on the oestrogel so that I don’t get oestrodose after reading about the controversy on that! 🙈 I bet they think im a right head case!
When I was younger I thought menopause was just about hot flushes & night sweats! If only!!!

Thanks again xx
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Wrensong

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Re: How to take Utrogestan
« Reply #12 on: September 14, 2020, 09:12:57 AM »

Hi Sal333,
Quote
The thought of having to speak to gp again & ask for more bloods for T3 & why T4 wasn’t done makes me feel I shouldn’t be! Especially as I just queried the prescription on the oestrogel so that I don’t get oestrodose after reading about the controversy on that! 🙈 I bet they think im a right head case!

I think the current guidelines on testing in hypothyroidism might make it difficult for your GP to agree to testing T3 or to get the test analysed if they requested it.  Even though I'm on replacement T3, requests for testing as part of a TFT have usually been declined by the labs in recent years, so I have to have mine tested privately.  He/she may have decided against testing T4 again just now as your latest TSH is within range & you are on Thyroxine, which should be raising your T4 level as indicated by the TSH coming down.  So asking for either now could, I agree, be awkward for both you & your GP & increase your stress, which none of us needs at this stage of our lives. 

It can take quite a while for a patient newly treated with Thyroxine to have the long term effects of sub-optimal levels reversed, so with any luck you may find your symptoms do improve given a little longer for the meds to work some magic.  So if you can't face further discussion with the GP just now I'd say maybe wait a while & get as much R&R as you can in the meantime.  But if you continue to feel unwell after around 6 months on Thyroxine, I do think you'd be justified in stressing to your doctor how unwell you feel because I think it's possible that getting your TSH down a little more might help resolve your symptoms.
Wx
« Last Edit: September 14, 2020, 09:14:47 AM by Wrensong »
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Sal333

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Re: How to take Utrogestan
« Reply #13 on: September 15, 2020, 05:44:19 AM »

Hi again Wrensong,

Yes my thyroxine is teva,& yes  my bloods were taken after I had taken my meds. I think you’re right I’ll see how the next couple of months go with the thyroxine & starting back on the oestrogel & utrogestan & see for any improvements.
I will get back on to them for more bloods  to see where they’re at.
When you say you got yours privately, did you go to spire/bupa etc. Unsure of some of these companies advertised online as to how credible they are 🤷🏻‍♀️ Anybody on here use them, if so what ones?

Take care Wrensong & thanks again
Sal333 xx
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Wrensong

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Re: How to take Utrogestan
« Reply #14 on: September 15, 2020, 09:15:57 AM »

Hi Sal333

Quote
Yes my thyroxine is teva
  That's good - you should be able to increase your dose more easily by asking for the 12.5mcg strength to be prescribed if you & your GP feel you might benefit from a little more at some point.  I've just tried halving one to see whether it might be feasible for you just to add another 6.25mcg a day or alternate days.  They are quite small tabs but splittable with care with a good tablet splitter.  I say good because they are not all created equal & with tiny, crumbly tabs we need a good one  ::)!


Quote
my bloods were taken after I had taken my meds
OK, so if you are still having hypo symptoms by then, might be worth getting an early morning TFT & taking your thyroid meds straight afterwards next time.  It's what my Endocrinologist advises anyway.

Quote
When you say you got yours privately, did you go to spire/bupa etc
  I will PM you with details & yes very reputable.

I hope you soon feel much better Sal333 & please don't give up hope, it should be possible to get you feeling much better with the right HRT & thyroid meds tweaked if need be.
Wx
« Last Edit: September 22, 2020, 08:39:41 AM by Wrensong »
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