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[Uptick]

Sorry, I've edited my post. Are you going to send me more links to the benzo forum?

Yes I know you had a hysteroscopy in Jan 2019 but it's been a while and you're still bleeding, so a TVS wouldn't give them all the answers. If your cervix is almost closed you will be offered a GA.

Why are you buying Oestrogel privately?

I'm buying oestrogel privately as oestrodose is the only thing on offer here.
The pharmacy also switch brands without telling me, they did it with my valium.

I will send you more links to the benzo forum, but do you mind if I wait as I am currently really anxious, and trying to find something to ease the anxiety like movies or something? Thinking about this plus all of the other rubbish problems is just brimming my anxiety cup over the top.

Yeah, cervix really closed, gynaecologist couldn't get a mm thick implement in there, it was like this thick ll

I still would rather have a scan, I have nobody to take me to hospital and back for hysteroscopy or look after me afterwards.

I see, poor thing, you don't need more stress. Yes, watching a good film is great for anxiety. Take your time, I have a lot of things to read, anyway.

See you tomorrow!

[CLKD]

If you don't have care at home the Consultant should keep you in overnight!

[Uptick]

The question here is why did the Gynaecologist not offer a GA immediately for reassurance. I've never known a scheduled examination not to take place once the appt. has been arranged 

What does of Valium do you take and how often? It took me 9 weeks to wean off an Anti-depressant but 3 days to stop Valium when it didn't agree with me 

GP surgeries buy the cheapest product offered - it happens with my ADs often but I've never had any ill effects so stopped looking for any  .  Same with statins .......... as long as the main ingredient is the same and as long as the fillers don't affect me, then I'm good to go.  Any ill effects from drugs since 1988 I have stopped taking within days. 

Hopefully you will find a way through.

It's not always straightforward with generic drugs, or even cheaper brands. Despite having the same active ingredients, if they come from different suppliers they can have traces of contaminants, not necessarily dangerous, but hypersensitive people will have reactions.

[Uptick]

Or ask you mum and sister? You have mentioned them on previous posts... anyway, have some rest now. I'm tired!

[CLKD]

Yep.  They should't put fillers in ?  talc springs to mind  .  Some people react to the fillers in VA treatments too.

We have a thread on noise ;-).  Some find that allergies develop or become worse at The Change ........

[Dandelion]

The question here is why did the Gynaecologist not offer a GA immediately for reassurance. I've never known a scheduled examination not to take place once the appt. has been arranged 

What does of Valium do you take and how often? It took me 9 weeks to wean off an Anti-depressant but 3 days to stop Valium when it didn't agree with me 

GP surgeries buy the cheapest product offered - it happens with my ADs often but I've never had any ill effects so stopped looking for any  .  Same with statins .......... as long as the main ingredient is the same and as long as the fillers don't affect me, then I'm good to go.  Any ill effects from drugs since 1988 I have stopped taking within days. 

Hopefully you will find a way through.

I did get a GA I requested it. Dunno if I still can with deterioration of NHS I read online that people have to pay privately. I'm certainly not having someone stretch my chuff without.

I'm down to 24mgs valium now, over two thirds of my original dose.
You'd think that although valium causes unscheduled bleeding, as I am on less the bleeding should let up.

I dose twice a day. I've been on it years.

I don't do AD's had too many toxic experiences from them.

Thanks for your message of hope x

[CLKD]

There's always hope 

[Dandelion]

There's always hope 

xx

[Dandelion]

I've written to Dr Currie-just written today so reply will be soon.
Bleeding still going on.
Got a sore vagina also, which has gone on a while.
Cant be VA as blood is wetting the vag.

[Uptick]

Hi Dandelion, how's everything? Hope the bleeding has stopped.

I have been reading about cross tolerance and as I suspected it's not just progesterone that has GABAergic modulation properties. Estradiol also interferes with GABA receptors.
This article is interesting because it shows that estradiol can interfere with neurons by altering responses to GABA receptors, but more importantly, this interaction can happen in both ways, negative and positive feedback, dependent on  the time of day, am v pm.

It's a very complex subject and it's been studied in mice, which can be genetically modified, but it's a solid evidence that it's not just progesterone that has a modulating effect on GABA A receptors. The evidence is that the authors used Diazepam to manipulate GABA A receptors apparent affinity. ' We use the term apparent affinity to describe the effect of diazepam on GABAARs because the detailed mechanisms of action of diazepam remain elusive, and the traditional mechanism of diazepam increasing “receptor affinity” may not be the only consequence of activation of the benzodiazepine site.'

The bottom line is that you don't need to be focused on progesterone levels, it's more important to keep both estradiol and progesterone in balance, which is a huge task, but I think you can achieve that by slowly tweaking the doses. It's also interesting that you can switch the time when you apply estradiol gel to see if ot makes a difference to irregular bleeding, because it's clear that estradiol can have different activity in the brain depending on the time of day. 'In both kisspeptin neuron populations from OVX mice, the frequency of GABAergic spontaneous postsynaptic currents was increased in the PM; this increase was blunted by estradiol.'

When do you apply the gel?

[Dandelion]

Hi Dandelion, how's everything? Hope the bleeding has stopped.

I have been reading about cross tolerance and as I suspected it's not just progesterone that has GABAergic modulation properties. Estradiol also interferes with GABA receptors.
This article is interesting because it shows that estradiol can interfere with neurons by altering responses to GABA receptors, but more importantly, this interaction can happen in both ways, negative and positive feedback, dependent on  the time of day, am v pm.

It's a very complex subject and it's been studied in mice, which can be genetically modified, but it's a solid evidence that it's not just progesterone that has a modulating effect on GABA A receptors. The evidence is that the authors used Diazepam to manipulate GABA A receptors apparent affinity. ' We use the term apparent affinity to describe the effect of diazepam on GABAARs because the detailed mechanisms of action of diazepam remain elusive, and the traditional mechanism of diazepam increasing “receptor affinity” may not be the only consequence of activation of the benzodiazepine site.'

The bottom line is that you don't need to be focused on progesterone levels, it's more important to keep both estradiol and progesterone in balance, which is a huge task, but I think you can achieve that by slowly tweaking the doses. It's also interesting that you can switch the time when you apply estradiol gel to see if ot makes a difference to irregular bleeding, because it's clear that estradiol can have different activity in the brain depending on the time of day. 'In both kisspeptin neuron populations from OVX mice, the frequency of GABAergic spontaneous postsynaptic currents was increased in the PM; this increase was blunted by estradiol.'

When do you apply the gel?

Hi Uptick thanks for your post.
I thought the bleeding had stopped but it has come back.

I have been reading about cross tolerance and as I suspected it's not just progesterone that has GABAergic modulation properties. Estradiol also interferes with GABA receptors.

Now I am worried, more so.
Reading articles just puts the sh1ts up me because a woman nearly died coming off progesterone.
Luckily she did her research and was able to tell doctors about HPA axis etc, and they saved her, I know I still haven't sent those benzo forum links, I've had too much on.
More worries that are non medical, it's like problems are piling up, problems I cannot find a solution to, problems that may negatively affect a lot of innocent people, no I haven't killed or fought anyone.

It's a very complex subject and it's been studied in mice, which can be genetically modified, but it's a solid evidence that it's not just progesterone that has a modulating effect on GABA A receptors. The evidence is that the authors used Diazepam to manipulate GABA A receptors apparent affinity. ' We use the term apparent affinity to describe the effect of diazepam on GABAARs because the detailed mechanisms of action of diazepam remain elusive, and the traditional mechanism of diazepam increasing “receptor affinity” may not be the only consequence of activation of the benzodiazepine site.'

So, does this basically mean that I am stuffed?
It's hard to keep both estradiol and progesterone in balance, as I don't even know if my body is absorbing progesterone.
Hurduty seemed to imply on the utrogestan aborption thread that it comes in set doses, I am on the max.
I apply my gel between 7pm and 8pm on a night as that is when I bathe/wash.

[Uptick]

I know you are a chronic worrier, that's why I haven't posted the link to the article.

You don't need to worry (more than you already are), it's good news. It means progesterone is not a monster drug that will send you off the rails if any change in dose is necessary, and I have already pointed out that this woman's experience as well as other reports you have read on the benzo forum can't be taken as gospel, each person is different and compounded prog cream is not the same as vaginal/oral prog. You can't base your own health on their very specific experiences, let alone trust everything you read when people are clearly distressed and have other issues that could be contributing to their mental health state. They're not scientists (although one of them has a scientific background), and even if they were, scientists have just a scrap of information on how these interactions occur, so anyone telling you they know exactly what is happening is lying. I have called Besins and they have refused to say what is the source of the information on the PIL regarding Diazepam and Utrogestan interacting to cause irregular bleeding. I suspect they don't know.

You can try using the gel AM to avoid that 'blunt' PM effect. You wake up, have a bath, wait until your skin is cooler and then apply the gel.

Of course your body is absorbing progesterone. There's no reason why it shouldn't be. And you won't have to up Utrogestan dose. I don't know why you are worrying about this. Set doses? What do you mean? Women on luteal support take up to 600mg of Utrogestan, if not more. Not that I think you need to increase the dose.

[Dandelion]

I know you are a chronic worrier, that's why I haven't posted the link to the article.

You don't need to worry (more than you already are), it's good news. It means progesterone is not a monster drug that will send you off the rails if any change in dose is necessary, and I have already pointed out that this woman's experience as well as other reports you have read on the benzo forum can't be taken as gospel, each person is different and compounded prog cream is not the same as vaginal/oral prog. You can't base your own health on their very specific experiences, let alone trust everything you read when people are clearly distressed and have other issues that could be contributing to their mental health state. They're not scientists (although one of them has a scientific background), and even if they were, scientists have just a scrap of information on how these interactions occur, so anyone telling you they know exactly what is happening is lying. I have called Besins and they have refused to say what is the source of the information on the PIL regarding Diazepam and Utrogestan interacting to cause irregular bleeding. I suspect they don't know.

You can try using the gel AM to avoid that 'blunt' PM effect. You wake up, have a bath, wait until your skin is cooler and then apply the gel.

Of course your body is absorbing progesterone. There's no reason why it shouldn't be. And you won't have to up Utrogestan dose. I don't know why you are worrying about this. Set doses? What do you mean? Women on luteal support take up to 600mg of Utrogestan, if not more. Not that I think you need to increase the dose.

I can't remember what type of prog the woman rushed to hospital was on, she isn't the same woman who took the cream.
The woman who was rushed to hospital was the woman with all of the scientific knowledge.
There's loads of women on benzo forums who have been laid flat with progesterone changes and withdrawal.
When I said set dose I may have misunderstood Hurdity but I thought no more than 200mg is allowed for meno woman.
Yeah Besins wont be able to give info.
The unknown unknowns are what I am not prepared to toy with, if experts don't know, I don't want to mess with them.
I have meltdowns where I have banged my head on the wall and left blood splats, my safety is at serious risk.

[Uptick]

I know you are a chronic worrier, that's why I haven't posted the link to the article.

You don't need to worry (more than you already are), it's good news. It means progesterone is not a monster drug that will send you off the rails if any change in dose is necessary, and I have already pointed out that this woman's experience as well as other reports you have read on the benzo forum can't be taken as gospel, each person is different and compounded prog cream is not the same as vaginal/oral prog. You can't base your own health on their very specific experiences, let alone trust everything you read when people are clearly distressed and have other issues that could be contributing to their mental health state. They're not scientists (although one of them has a scientific background), and even if they were, scientists have just a scrap of information on how these interactions occur, so anyone telling you they know exactly what is happening is lying. I have called Besins and they have refused to say what is the source of the information on the PIL regarding Diazepam and Utrogestan interacting to cause irregular bleeding. I suspect they don't know.

You can try using the gel AM to avoid that 'blunt' PM effect. You wake up, have a bath, wait until your skin is cooler and then apply the gel.

Of course your body is absorbing progesterone. There's no reason why it shouldn't be. And you won't have to up Utrogestan dose. I don't know why you are worrying about this. Set doses? What do you mean? Women on luteal support take up to 600mg of Utrogestan, if not more. Not that I think you need to increase the dose.

I can't remember what type of prog the woman rushed to hospital was on, she isn't the same woman who took the cream.
The woman who was rushed to hospital was the woman with all of the scientific knowledge.
There's loads of women on benzo forums who have been laid flat with progesterone changes and withdrawal.
When I said set dose I may have misunderstood Hurdity but I thought no more than 200mg is allowed for meno woman.
Yeah Besins wont be able to give info.
The unknown unknowns are what I am not prepared to toy with, if experts don't know, I don't want to mess with them.
I have meltdowns where I have banged my head on the wall and left blood splats, my safety is at serious risk.

That particular woman have not posted on the forum for ages, so you don't know what exactly has happened to her. Forget about it.

If you need to change prog dose you would have to do the same thing as you're doing with Valium, but since Utrogestan is not available in different doses (other than 200 and 100 mg) you have to tweak estradiol dose or, as I have mentioned above, change PM to AM application, to see if it helps with irregular bleeding.

I'm still waiting for Besins to call me back (or email me), I don't take no for an answer.

[Dandelion]

I know you are a chronic worrier, that's why I haven't posted the link to the article.

You don't need to worry (more than you already are), it's good news. It means progesterone is not a monster drug that will send you off the rails if any change in dose is necessary, and I have already pointed out that this woman's experience as well as other reports you have read on the benzo forum can't be taken as gospel, each person is different and compounded prog cream is not the same as vaginal/oral prog. You can't base your own health on their very specific experiences, let alone trust everything you read when people are clearly distressed and have other issues that could be contributing to their mental health state. They're not scientists (although one of them has a scientific background), and even if they were, scientists have just a scrap of information on how these interactions occur, so anyone telling you they know exactly what is happening is lying. I have called Besins and they have refused to say what is the source of the information on the PIL regarding Diazepam and Utrogestan interacting to cause irregular bleeding. I suspect they don't know.

You can try using the gel AM to avoid that 'blunt' PM effect. You wake up, have a bath, wait until your skin is cooler and then apply the gel.

Of course your body is absorbing progesterone. There's no reason why it shouldn't be. And you won't have to up Utrogestan dose. I don't know why you are worrying about this. Set doses? What do you mean? Women on luteal support take up to 600mg of Utrogestan, if not more. Not that I think you need to increase the dose.

I can't remember what type of prog the woman rushed to hospital was on, she isn't the same woman who took the cream.
The woman who was rushed to hospital was the woman with all of the scientific knowledge.
There's loads of women on benzo forums who have been laid flat with progesterone changes and withdrawal.
When I said set dose I may have misunderstood Hurdity but I thought no more than 200mg is allowed for meno woman.
Yeah Besins wont be able to give info.
The unknown unknowns are what I am not prepared to toy with, if experts don't know, I don't want to mess with them.
I have meltdowns where I have banged my head on the wall and left blood splats, my safety is at serious risk.

That particular woman have not posted on the forum for ages, so you don't know what exactly has happened to her. Forget about it.

If you need to change prog dose you would have to do the same thing as you're doing with Valium, but since Utrogestan is not available in different doses (other than 200 and 100 mg) you have to tweak estradiol dose or, as I have mentioned above, change PM to AM application, to see if it helps with irregular bleeding.

I'm still waiting for Besins to call me back (or email me), I don't take no for an answer.

Hi
It's not that Besins are being difficult, they cannot supply information related to Benzos.
I feel as if the toxic valium has messed up my whole CNS.
The woman while not posted for ages does have a lot of knowledge and knows what she is talking about.
I can't remember when she said she stopped posting.