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Author Topic: 3.00 a.m. or 3.00 p.m. changes/flushes anyone?  (Read 1938 times)

GetStuffedPeri

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3.00 a.m. or 3.00 p.m. changes/flushes anyone?
« on: August 01, 2020, 05:58:29 PM »

What is it with those times of day?  Does anyone else experience any changes/surges at these times (or thereabouts)?
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Justjules

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Re: 3.00 a.m. or 3.00 p.m. changes/flushes anyone?
« Reply #1 on: August 01, 2020, 08:49:49 PM »

I’m at least 8 years post meno and 63 years old, but for the last few months I am waking with awful hot flashes from around 5am. Last about 20 mins and are driving me mad so hence getting anxious about them.  I’m extremely stressed at the mo with life stuff so hoping it’s anxiety led. Try deep breathing and thinking f something relaxing like a favourite place...easier sad than done I know.
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KarineT

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Re: 3.00 a.m. or 3.00 p.m. changes/flushes anyone?
« Reply #2 on: August 01, 2020, 09:25:02 PM »

Can you still have hot flushes 8 years post meno?
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Taz2

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Re: 3.00 a.m. or 3.00 p.m. changes/flushes anyone?
« Reply #3 on: August 01, 2020, 10:24:29 PM »

You can have hot flushes for ever if you are one of the unlucky ones.

My flushes/sweats were every 20 minutes day and night. You could set your watch by them. Annoying and exhausting!

Taz x
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Wrensong

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Re: 3.00 a.m. or 3.00 p.m. changes/flushes anyone?
« Reply #4 on: August 02, 2020, 11:17:54 AM »

Like Taz, I could set my watch by my regular, intense flushes for the decade+ before I finally started HRT & interspersed with those that always came at set times, there were additional random ones  :o.
 
Justjules, mine have never been over in the couple of mins the lit tells us flushes last either & yes unfortunately, stress always seems to cause an upsurge in both frequency & intensity of flushes - playing havoc with insomnia.  Like you, I do breathing exercises to get my heart rate back down & visualise that calm place I wish I was in  :) 8). . . instead of my raging furnace of a bed!

KarineT, I'm afraid as Taz says, there are some women for whom this unpleasant & exhausting symptom goes on indefinitely postmenopause.  I'm now in my 15th year of symptoms & 8 years postmenopause.  Afraid of breast cancer from which my Mum had died I avoided HRT until I was 3 years post @ 53, despite a horrific menopause that had left me on my knees & unable to work.  I now wish I hadn't wasted a decade of my life waiting for menopause to "pass", thinking I was doing the sensible thing.  HRT was not an easy decision for me & hasn't been a panacea but I'm better with it than without & with other chronic conditions I need to do all I can to improve my health in order to have a productive life that can be enjoyed rather than merely endured.  With the potential for living 3+ decades after menopause age, I think this is what the decision comes down to for many of us.
« Last Edit: August 02, 2020, 11:23:18 AM by Wrensong »
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KarineT

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Re: 3.00 a.m. or 3.00 p.m. changes/flushes anyone?
« Reply #5 on: August 02, 2020, 02:17:08 PM »

Wrensong, if you don't mind me asking, what symptoms did you suffer with?  Did they start in peri?  When did you start HRT?  Was it before reaching the menopause?
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Wrensong

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Re: 3.00 a.m. or 3.00 p.m. changes/flushes anyone?
« Reply #6 on: August 02, 2020, 02:19:14 PM »

GSP, you have my sympathy.  Are you able to get back to sleep afterwards?  The 3:30am flush has been the most persistent for me  ::).  Night time flushes can be so disruptive & the resultant insomnia life-wrecking.  I'm so alert with them that even if I manage to cool down it can be impossible to get back to sleep, meaning I'm whacked & good for nothing from about mid-afternoon. 

Can I ask are you on HRT?  Coming late to it myself & having a 15 month break midway, finding the best fit is still a work in progress but I'm hugely relieved that my latest regimen seems to be gradually deferring the 3:30am flush to a now fairly regular 5am (fingers crossed), meaning considerably more sleep.  My daytime flushes have been all but resolved by HRT.  They now only seem to occur in stressful situations, hot weather (of course) & during changes of regimen while the body is adapting to the temporary hormonal disruption.

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KarineT

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Re: 3.00 a.m. or 3.00 p.m. changes/flushes anyone?
« Reply #7 on: August 02, 2020, 02:29:32 PM »

Sorry Wrensong as you've already mentioned when  you started HRT.  I believe I am still peri as I haven't reached 12 months without a period.  I haven't had one since January this year and I will be 50 next October. I'm guessing I'm well on the way to reaching the menopause.  I  have to wait and see what happens in the next 6 months or thereafter because sometimes periods can come back.  By what you're saying, you would have reached the menopause aged 50.  Did you bad symptoms before & during the menopause?  Did some of the symptoms go away in postmenopause or did they get worse?
Thanks
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Wrensong

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Re: 3.00 a.m. or 3.00 p.m. changes/flushes anyone?
« Reply #8 on: August 02, 2020, 04:56:28 PM »

Quote
Wrensong, if you don't mind me asking, what symptoms did you suffer with?  Did they start in peri?  When did you start HRT?  Was it before reaching the menopause?

Hi KarineT, like many women I've had quite a range of symptoms, but I should perhaps say that as I have thyroid disease & a couple of other chronic conditions, with hindsight it seems likely these contributed to make menopause a challenge too great to expect to sail through!  I'm also very skinny, with little body fat to provide the oestrone that can help keep women of a healthier weight on a more even keel.  5 years postmenopause I then had both ovaries removed, so lost overnight any residual oestrogen they were producing, together with around half, maybe more, of my testosterone (the adrenals are another source of T).  Symptoms were at their worst in peri but continued to be relentless for more than a decade with no end in sight, until I finally started HRT 3 years postmenopause.  The BSO then brought new consequences of increased hormone deficiency.

If you are just entering the transition, please don't be frightened by my experience - you'll know from reading the forum there's a huge variation in how menopause affects us & what happened to me is probably at the extreme end of the range.  I do try to tell it like it is though, because though I came late to MM, the openness of other members helped me feel reassuringly less alone with the severity & breadth of symptoms.  The awareness that some consequences of hormone deficiency may not improve without treatment & that others are lifelong, would also have helped me make more timely decisions about management.  If lifestyle changes aren't enough to enable adequate QOL, then we're at least lucky there's a range of HRT preparations we can try to see whether these represent a preferable option to waiting & hoping.

Apologies - this is likely to be an epic.  But you did ask!

OK, so the list as for so many women, includes frequent flushes & intense overheating (whole body) every night, with sudden waking, feeling inexplicably frightened.  I never sweat, so can't cool down easily.  With pre-existing pain-related insomnia, I really needed to get the nightly inferno under control.  In peri  pre-period I'd be so hot I'd hardly sleep at all.  One of the scariest symptoms was persistent palpitations i.e. not just racing rate, but disrupted rhythm, in intermittent episodes of an hour+ 24/7, for several years.  After a range of cardiac tests, ectopics were diagnosed, but not until much later did I learn that palpitations are common in menopause.  An intermittent burning sensation in limbs, probably a variant of formication, sometimes with slight nausea.  Episodes of dizziness with vomiting.  Exacerbation of pre-existing migraine with aura.  Worsening of IBS-C, shown on MRI to be due to pelvic floor dysfunction - as collagen declines with oestrogen deficiency we lose muscle tone, affecting both bladder & bowel function.  Painful VA with frequent UTIs.  Worsening of dry eyes & development of many floaters.  Very dry skin & later dry mouth.  Joint pain - shoulder & hip.  Hair loss - luckily thick to start with.  Fluid retention during long anovulatory cycles in peri, with very tender breasts, swollen, aching calves & abdominal bloating.  Conversely, in the 10 days pre-period when all meno symptoms were worse, I'd pass vast amounts of urine, when the retained fluid would vanish, leaving alarmingly thin legs, showing muscle loss.  Fasciculations all over.  Crashing fatigue & poor stamina.  Unintentionally lost a stone, going down to 6.5 st.  Osteopenia was later diagnosed.  Alarming black holes in memory - couldn't name familiar faces.  Poor concentration.  During peri - occasional irrational anger.  Tearfulness & anxiety.  I'm sure there's more, but that lot's embarrassing enough, so I'll stop there!  Didn't all start at once - that was over a 15+ yr timescale & some symptoms have now resolved or eased.

To answer your other questions: yes, some of the major symptoms began suddenly, 6-7 years prior to final period.  At first only in 2nd half of cycle, but over a few months, set in every day/night.  I had no idea how bad menopause could be, was completely unprepared for it & couldn't believe how embarrassingly unwell I felt or that this lot could in fact just be due to menopause.  The taboo around menopause made me feel guilty, misunderstood & depressed & I felt I had to make excuses to cancel appointments I wasn't up to attending.  Intolerance of heat & the fear associated with being away from home with the ectopic heart issue meant holidays in the Med had to stop.  Also, regretfully, had to change the way I cook, avoiding use of oven or grill.  Lived in short shorts indoors year round & even cooked Christmas dinner in them!  Poor stamina from chronically inadequate sleep meant I couldn't pull my weight & my partner had to take on tasks I'd always managed with ease.  I was lucky he was understanding & effectively carried me for the decade pre-HRT.

I had no access to MM in peri, none of my friends had got there yet & relatives reported having "sailed though".  I found the whole thing bewildering, frightening & stressful, especially as the atypical thyroid condition meant no-one was sure which symptoms were due to what, so I lost confidence in medical opinion. 

2 years into peri, in desperation I had a reluctant 1-month trial of an unsuitable sequi HRT which made things even worse during the prog phase & my then GP thought a month on 1 type of HRT was enough to prove it wasn't the answer.  So, largely out of fear of breast cancer, but also mindful HRT could complicate the thyroid situation & worsen migraine, I waited through a decade of this mayhem then took advice from a menopause specialist & a good endocrinologist, having previously discussed BC risk with a breast surgeon who'd treated me for a benign condition.  Everyone thought HRT was the sensible choice & though it's been a bumpy ride since starting it 5 years ago, it's brought some much needed improvements.  For that I'm relieved, grateful & optimistic for the future.

I hope there's something helpful in the detail & that it doesn't just make for depressing reading.  I want to stress again that this probably represents the extreme end of the range & that there are many women who seem to get through the transition quicker & more easily, without feeling the need for HRT.

P.S. KarineT - you've posted again while I was writing this epic!  The worst symptoms were I believe due to the erratic hormonal fluctuations we get in peri, but only starting HRT postmenopause improved things significantly.  If I haven't answered some of your questions please come back to me. 
Wx

Revised later for clarity.
« Last Edit: January 28, 2021, 07:54:58 PM by Wrensong »
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KarineT

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Re: 3.00 a.m. or 3.00 p.m. changes/flushes anyone?
« Reply #9 on: August 02, 2020, 06:08:20 PM »

Wrensong, I'm sorry to hear about all the problems you're having despite being in postmenopause.  On top of this you have health issues which don't help.  Like most people I used to think that the menopause, although not an illness, was only the absence of periods and hot flushes but it's a lot more than this.  I believe I've been peri since 2016 when I first missed a period in October 2016.  Thereafter, from 2017 to 2018, I would have one every other month.  Then ifrom January to March 2019 I had a heavy  period every month.  From May 2019 to Januay 2020 it was every 3 months.  Then nothing since.  One thing I found that was strange was the constant dizziness I started experiencing in 2018.  It was very frightening and I thought there was something seriously wrong with me.  I had all sorts of tests done to rule any medical conditions.  Thankfully, they didn't find anything medically wrong with me.  This dizziness is therefore menopause-related. What scares me most is the low mood and anxiety that I get.  I wouldn't want this to turn into a mental disorder as I've read somewhere that it can happen to some women. Mental health problems are difficult to treat.  I"m taking herbal supplements at the moment.  If they don"t work I'm prepared to try something else.  HRT will be a last resort for me.
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Wrensong

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Re: 3.00 a.m. or 3.00 p.m. changes/flushes anyone?
« Reply #10 on: August 02, 2020, 06:49:47 PM »

KarineT, yes I'd say from the erratic nature of your cycles with increasing length between & of course your age, you are well into the menopausal transition.  As you say we can go many months at this time thinking periods have stopped, only for one to occur & then we have to start counting all over again to get to that 12 month without point, at which we're deemed to have reached menopause proper.

I feel for you with the dizziness.  It is the most horrible sensation that saps confidence & can be very disruptive if it's severe - I hated it & the nausea & vomiting that came with it at its worst were just awful.

Lots of us unfortunately also feel low & anxious at this time, but for some women this does improve postmenopause.  Have you tried mindfulness meditation for it?  I was desperate to feel a sense of control over what was happening in peri & got interested in mindfulness, setting aside 20 mins or more every day for a formal meditation session.  Not something I'd ever have considered before.  Over time this really helped calm my system & I looked forward to it as a quiet time when I felt I was doing something studies showed help both our mental & physical health in so many ways.  It felt like an insurance policy at a time I was terribly frightened I'd never get through & out the other side.

I also had counselling in peri, choosing someone who used meditation in his practice & I'd recommend that for talking through worries & getting a grip on anxiety.  Mine was being fuelled by the palpitations & dreadful insomnia & having a safe place to go & talk about this with someone trained to listen was helpful.

Yes HRT was very much a last resort for me too, but I already had a healthy lifestyle to help manage pre-existing health conditions & the combination of these with menopause proved just too much for my body to handle.  There seemed no more I could do to improve the situation & I felt I needed to get some control back in my life.  I'm now resigned to the fact I need HRT & grateful that I feel better than I have in the 15+years since peri began.  My sleep & stamina are improving, I've been able to put on much needed weight & can see the increased muscle in my legs & arms.   Hopefully a repeat DEXA (COVID permitting) will also show the osteopenia has not progressed to osteoporosis.  Adding just a little testosterone daily in recent months seems to have made a big difference, in addition to being on a low dose of oestrogen, enough to bring my oestradiol just above postmenopausal range.  The feeling of wellbeing I'd lost after BSO, during a long break from HRT, also returned within a few weeks of resuming use & I have a greater sense of calm on my current regime than I did during my first 2 years on HRT.  So I feel pretty lucky at this point in my life. The only fly in the ointment, as for many women, is that getting the progesterone component sorted is proving a challenge!

Easier said than done, I know, but try not to worry too much & tell yourself you are coping as well as you can & that you have options for the future if you come to a point where you feel you want to take a different approach.
Wx
« Last Edit: August 04, 2020, 09:21:00 AM by Wrensong »
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