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[Nas]

Thanks Mary,
Think I will go for the ablation, assuming I haven’t got endometrial cancer or some other nasty when they finally scan me!

I think it’s the Oestrogen which is to blame. It’s like it stirs my womb into turmoil, just awful. But my brain and the rest of me needs the Oestrogen. Something must have happened between September and now, as I had 3 great months during the summer, of no pain or bleeding on my patch and utrogestan.

Im sailing in choppy waters, as I’ve had breast cancer and have been seen  by both  NHs and private specialists. Not helped by the fact,  that neither can agree the best way forward for me!

[Marchlove]

Hi Nas
Have you ever read any of Rebecca Glaser’s studies/articles on taking hrt after breast cancer?
Big on Testosterone implants for breast cancer ladies and according to my uk gynae she is a very well respected doctor.
Hope things settle down for you xx

[Nas]

No March, I’ve not read those papers you’ve mentioned.

I’m struggling with getting oestrogen into my body without bleeding! Just in total hell right now.

[CrispyChick]

Urgh. Me again.

So I took my 25mg progesterone tablets for 10 days as Instructed. As per my previous post I experienced headaches and narkiness (the headaches were almost like a withdrawl mid afternoon).

Since stopping I had one excellent day  followed by a period. Now, immediately after my period my symptoms of estrogen dominance are off the scale. I feel poisoned, sick, dizzy, off my food. Just awful. Me at my worst. And where I started with all this.

I have read that progesterone causes an upsurge by estrogen receptors, making estrogen even more effective when you first start progesterone. Not sure if thats true or not, but it certainly feels like it here.

My question really is, should I switch now to the cream???  Because I thought it had been prescribed in error (because I thought the Dr said capsules) I can still access the prescription for the compounded cream. It would be the same 25mg dose - but maybe it would be a gentler start. Any thoughts???

I've enailed my clinic, but I'm not prepared to pay for a review appointment until I've tried the treatment for a few months as suggested. So I don't know if they'll ask the Dr for me or not. 🤷‍♀️.

Am I jumping too soon, or would switching methods from capsules to cream be a good idea??? I know Mary G is surprised I was given capsules. Is crsam a better delivery route to start out with?

Thanks x

[HelloSam666]

Hi Crispy Chick, oh i do feel for you. All i know is that (fear of repeating myself ;-)) i felt exactly as you described when i started the HRT with the progesterone tablets & oestrogen patches, prescribed the menopause GP.

In terms of "progesterone causes an upsurge by estrogen receptors" thus causing more horrible side effects, i never had that with the cream i bought. I wonder if creams vs tablets can cause this difference? I just wanted to check though that the progesterone tablets you started taking are the same formula of progesterone cream i'm taking (natural micronised progesterone? I'm guessing so from what you've mentioned before. And the 20 - 25mg is roughly what i take each day by cream.

[CrispyChick]

Hi sam

Thanks for replying. Yes cream and capsules both compounded mico progesterone. It cost me a fortune... Now I've just ordered the cream too.  still... I'd rather get it right.

I'm glad that u have the same symptoms when high estrogen (well, not glad, but it's good to feel sane!). I am soooo bad today. I can literally do nothing.

Given the capsules gave me headaches which felt like late aft withdrawl, and given the doc was happy to start me on the cream (had I not queried it 🙄 - possibly Wrongly), I think I'll try the cream this month. Still says start on day 11. The next 7 days are going to be tough until I get to day 11.

I have found posts by Dangermouse (not sure if she is still active) who said the first month of progesterone only therapy made her awful before making her better... Fingers crossed that's what's going on. Could also be worse if oral capsules have given me a bigger dose I guess.

So, you take prog cream in addition to the mini pill. That's interesting. The mini pill keeps your estrogen low. I used to get on fine with it but the started to experience horrific pmt (but no period). That would make sense as the progestin does not replace your own progesterone. So interesting to know that combo works for u. 👍 What made you decide to try that combo???

[Mary G]

CrispyChick, sorry to come in late on this but I was going to suggest phoning the pharmacist at the Specialist Pharmacy - assuming you get your prescription from them of course.

I can see that you have now ordered the cream which sees like a far better option but I would still ring the pharmacist and run your particular case past her.   I found her extremely helpful and she was able to talk me through the products/options.

Just one question, if you are oestrogen dominant, why are you using progesterone cyclically?  I would have thought you need a low dose every day.

Hope the cream works.

[HelloSam666]

Hi Crispy Chick, Mary,

actually on the progesterone cream - i do take it every day, primarily because i don't know where i am in the menopause phases due to not having periods on the mini pill.

Re the mini pill, my GP said to stay on it for now if it's not causing any problems, no reason given & to be honest, i didnt ask. I used to be on Cerazette but was changed to Cerelle a couple of years ago due to availability issues. I was never sure if it was masking some menopause symptoms so i've been a bit nervous about stopping it although i guess its not needed any more for contraception ;-).

Just on a side note, my younger sister started the cream a week or so ago. She's so nervous about starting HRT after my experience and in the last few days her bad daily headaches have stopped. She's actually on the mini pill too.

[CrispyChick]

Thanks ladies.

Mary - it did cross my mind to speak to the pharmacy. I've just sent an email. I get very impatient when feel this bad, hence I just ordered the cream  . Partly because I need it for next Thurs if I'm going to switch - and it takes that long to compound and send.

You're right - I've now sought their advice on the best form to start with and why my symptoms have intensified.

No idea why I'm on 10 days only. I had assumed it was because that's when u naturally produce progesterone. Many cream regimes I've googled seem to follow like this. Also, the idea of starting slowly was definitely mentioned...

As my post last week - I did feel like I tipped the other way, but the last few days I've well and truely tipped back again!!! This is horrific.

Still... I just want to get back on it and see where I go, but I did feel the capsules were quite harsh. And perhaps eliminated quickly - hence the headaches.

I'll see what advice I get. Try and get through the next week and start cream or capsules next Thurs.

I'll then make my follow up appointment at the clinic.

Thanks ladies. Really appreciate not feeling alone. X

[Mary G]

Thanks for the update Crispy but sorry you have had to pay for another prescription.

I would be inclined to go back to the doctor to get some clarity and question why she prescribed the progesterone cyclically.   I would also tell her about the cock up with the progesterone tablets.  I know you asked for them but I don't think she should have sanctioned tablets for someone who needs progesterone for therapeutic reasons and should have phoned you to talk it through.

Please let us know when you hear back from the pharmacist.

Sam, it sounds like you have got a good regime there!   I hope it works out for your sister too.

[CrispyChick]

I think looking back she probably did mean me to start on cream, hence the first prescription.

I'd written down capsule next to progesterone during a telephone conversation because the video wasn't working  . But that might've been during her chat about the different methods. But you're right, she should've cone back and insisted cream was right when I queried it.

That said, I don't actually care about the extra money. I just feel so bad, I want something that works. I wasn't expecting to feel instantly better, but I wasn't expecting to feel worse.

I've just googled and the American Dr Lee that heralded prog only recommends 14 days pre menses. Every day for post meno. I do recall asking if it will unbalance me to only take half the month, but she said it helps with overall balancing.

I'll certainly ask at my next appointment. I also need a month or two of trialling first I guess.

For the time being i'll await a response to my emails to the clinic and pharmacy. 🤔

[dangermouse]

Hi sam

Thanks for replying. Yes cream and capsules both compounded mico progesterone. It cost me a fortune... Now I've just ordered the cream too.  still... I'd rather get it right.

I'm glad that u have the same symptoms when high estrogen (well, not glad, but it's good to feel sane!). I am soooo bad today. I can literally do nothing.

Given the capsules gave me headaches which felt like late aft withdrawl, and given the doc was happy to start me on the cream (had I not queried it 🙄 - possibly Wrongly), I think I'll try the cream this month. Still says start on day 11. The next 7 days are going to be tough until I get to day 11.

I have found posts by Dangermouse (not sure if she is still active) who said the first month of progesterone only therapy made her awful before making her better... Fingers crossed that's what's going on. Could also be worse if oral capsules have given me a bigger dose I guess.

So, you take prog cream in addition to the mini pill. That's interesting. The mini pill keeps your estrogen low. I used to get on fine with it but the started to experience horrific pmt (but no period). That would make sense as the progestin does not replace your own progesterone. So interesting to know that combo works for u. 👍 What made you decide to try that combo???

Hey there,

I have recently used progesterone again. I have only had a couple of periods in the last 2 years and my hormone levels are around 44 for oestrogen and progesterone about 0.3. I felt much better but wanted to try the BHRT now my levels were not as volatile.
 
My doctor at London Hormone Clinic said as my symptoms were not consistent throughout the month that I was clearly still having volatility and this would be oestrogen surges but on a lower grade. She explained that both high oestrogen and low oestrogen do not cause the neurological symptoms I tend to get, but fluctuations do. 

I tried the progesterone lozenges for a change, they seemed to work more instantly but also seemed to leave my body very quickly, causing some volatility. I had no joy before with Utrogestan (oral form) as oral forms can go down the wrong hormonal pathways apparently, particularly if, like me, you have sluggish digestion which compromises the liver.

I decided to go back to the cream, on a higher dose now I was no longer having high oestrogen surges, and I found 100mg once or twice a day really effective and completely stopped my migraines and other mood/neurological twitches and tachycardias. Also hot flushes completely stopped. Mine was from the PCCA/Customised 4U pharmacy. I felt so much better and my resting pulse was finally at a normal rate where the little oestrogen surges caused my heart to be over stimulated, creating a constant anxious feeling. I also found the stiffness in my body reduced immediately.

After a few weeks I started getting very bloated and found out that progesterone is a diuretic so I tried to add some Lenzetto spray, to try to balance it, but after 2 days I had a 3 day nausea migraine (literally heaving 24/7 like travel sickness which is how I was 6 years ago in early peri). So for now I have stopped everything but I may use progesterone every other day with gaps so it doesn't build up, as the horrible withdrawal feeling only seems to strike on day 2 of stopping.

Hope that helps!

[dangermouse]

I can't seem to edit my post but I wanted to add that I realise now that oestrogen will always cause migraines for me, even when my levels are low so I will only ever consider progesterone only.

[Perinowpost]

Just putting it out there Crispychick but are you sure the problem is oestrogen dominance? And re the progesterone causing an upsurge in oestrogen receptors theory, are you sure that’s the case and it’s not just progesterone withdrawal you’re suffering from? It’s very common and something many of us struggle with (me right now 😞) and the main downside of taking prog x

[CrispyChick]

Thank you so much ladies, that is all insightful.

Dangermouse - I have read a lot of your old posts as my symptoms are very similar. Horrific motion sickness being the first and worst symptom. It had calmed down a lot and is back with a vengeance this week after my first 10 days of progesterone capsules.

I'm so glad to hear things have calmed for you... If not fully resolved.

I did read one of your posts from a while back where you said the first month of prog therapy you reacted badly to, then it started to help - I think you were travelling at the time. Can you recall if it made your estrogen symptoms worse???

From what you've said, I'm guessing you think cream is the best route? And oral can 'go down the wrong hormonal pathways' - not sure what you mean, but it sounds bad 🤣.

I too suspect prog can build up. Might be another reason I've been told 10 days a month to start with 🤷‍♀️

Perinowpost - thanks for the input. I really have no idea. However, my symptoms are the same as my worst which are explained as estrogen dominance by my doctor. When I stopped the progesterone on Thursday, I felt good 2 days later, that was just before my period when my estrogen would also be low.

I must say, the reactivating estrogen receptors does sound a bit far fetched, but... Dangermouse has pointed out oral prog can go down the wrong pathway.

I was getting daily headaches laterally with the prog - and that felt like withdrawl. I think the half life of prog is fairly short. Can I ask what your prog withdrawl symptoms are??? Are you on estrogen with it and therfore a high dose of prog???

I'll update if I hear back from the clinic (not sure they'll engage for no money) or pharmacy. X