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[Blue Kingfisher]

Hello Mary G & all,

I just wanted to chip in & say after 10 years of great suffering with various different types of progesterone (including the Kyleena) I am on day 3 of using a progesterone lozenge. All I can say is so far so good but there have been many types of pg ive tried that I’ve been in hell (again) by now. I will see how it goes. I’ve been on 3 pumps oestrogel & 2 pumps the day after (alternating) but I’ve dropped this to 2 pumps daily now. I will see how it goes as I said but wondering when & if I should drop the oestrogel to one pump daily. I don’t want to give my body too much change to deal with at the same time but equally wondering if I will soon have too much oestrogen in my body vs pg?

Before starting the lozenges I was on 200mg Utrogestan once every three days used vaginally. I’d imagine I will probably be ok for a while whilst my pg levels come down a bit. My main symptom now is headaches but greatly improved by stopping the Utrogestan & starting the lozenges.

I know it’s early days but I’m very surprised to not not feel completely dreadful on the lozenges by now. They might just be what I’ve been searching for for many years. I suffer from fatigue as I’m hypothyroid but hopeful this new HRT will help to stabilise things more so my thyroid medication is better utilised. I find it impossible to know if it’s low oestrogen causing my fatigue or high oestrogen blocking my thyroid medication. If I see one doctor (who uses blood tests) they say my oestrogen is too low and if I see another (saliva hormone test) they say my oestrogen is a little high. Time will tell who is right & hopefully the lozenges will help me get to the bottom of it as 10 years of trials and all errors……is quite enough for me x

[Mary G]

Blue Kingfisher, it's good to hear from you.

I remember our conversations about progesterone very well and although it is still early days, I'm really pleased that the lozenges seem to be working for you.   Three years ago, I started on a 50mg progesterone lozenge with 2 pumps of Oestrogel and it was a good balance so personally, I would not reduce the oestrogen yet.  I have now reduced to one pump of gel but that is because of (a) migraines and (b) I'm now 60 and can be symptom free on a very low dose of oestrogen.

I think the reason the lozenges work so well is partly due to the 50mg dose and also the better the delivery method.   I think 200mg Utrogestan is far too high a dose in one hit which is why so many women struggle with it.  I wouldn't think taking 200mg Utrogestan every three days would be a very good balance either.

Good luck and please keep us updated.

[Blue Kingfisher]

Thanks Mary G, I’m hitting a few speed bumps so I’ve started a new thread on this. Interesting that your headaches were caused by the oestrogen…….I’m not sure if mine are caused by the too much or too little oestrogen in relation to the lozenge! Anyway, I’ve started a new thread but your experience on this is hugely appreciated xx

[pollywollydoodle]

The compounded progesterone lozenge is something I'm considering right now. Very long story shortened, high dose oestrogen, 7 day utro, blob of testo gel, all working fine until about 3/4 years ago, I can't remember exactly when it started to slide but it was very gradual and the obvious element was that the oestrogen made me feel unwell and the first 2 days of utro, I felt great, thereafter, I felt hellish with all the usual bad fallout of utro. Pillar to post and back with GP and NHS endo who both offered anti-depressants, diagnosed CFS, Fibromyalgia and Depression - obvs! and continuing to reduce my oestrogen as it was the only way I felt well. My symptoms and blood tests pointed to very low thyroid and adrenal hormones but no-one was able to explain why. I recently approached a private endo who explained that the maelstrom that occurs during menopause for some women affects not just the sex hormones but the adrenal hormones and in turn the thyroid is affected. The upshot is she suggested I try both progesterone at 25mg and/or pregnenolone at 25mg per day as they both help to balance the adrenals which are put under enormous stress during menopause transition. On this horrendous journey I found that 10-20mg Progesterone cream was the one thing that made me feel better, whereas oestrogen made me feel really ill. I'd like to continue with progesterone but would prefer to know I'm using a good product with clear dosing. I never thought I'd ever find myself saying that prog was my saviour, it was hell for me for many years, but if this journey has taught me anything, it's that oestrogen is not the only game in town during menopause and it may account for the fact that for many women, particularly those in surgical meno, oestrogen only, will not provide the best outcome as it's not the only hormone we're lacking.

[Mary G]

pollywollydoodle, what you have said makes a great deal of sense.   I used to think that progesterone was my worse enemy but that was because it was either (a) synthetic or (b) it was body identical but the dose was too high.   

At the correct dose, I find body identical progesterone to be beneficial and calming.

[Mary G]

I have been using the progesterone drops for over a month now and I'm pleased to say they are just as good as the lozenges but more user friendly.   I just drop them under my tongue, wait a couple of minutes and job done.

Another benefit is the dose is very easy to adjust if necessary.

[Blue Kingfisher]

Thanks for the update Mary G, sounds very encouraging. So presumably you use the drops at night, no food or drink for a certain amount of time after using them I’d imagine? Do you leave an food/drink air gap before taking the drops too?

I’ve been using the lozenges now for 42 days and so far it’s the only form of progesterone I can tolerate on an ongoing basis. Stability is very key for me with the sex hormones or it throws everything out with my thyroid. I take the lozenge last thing at night but I’m careful to clean my teeth a good 30 mins prior to that in case there is any interference. Besides, the lozenges taste better when a little bit apart from toothpaste!

I’m largely very very pleased with the lozenges to date so I’ll stick with them for now but may think about the drops in the near future as they seem like a good option. Xx

[CrispyChick]

Good to hear that update Mary G.

I've now started my journey with the compounded BHRT sector... Currently undertaking all my initial tests. I'm very excited...

I find the progesterone stories very interesting. Particularly your point on synthetic or utro at one dose being too much.

At 45, I think it very probable I've been low in prog, rather than estrogen - something the NHS doesn't seem to consider.  . But I have no doubt in my mind that if I suddenly started supplementing with utrogestan alone it would be far too much!!!

I like the sound of the drops. 👍

[Mary G]

Blue Kingfisher, I'm so pleased to hear that the lozenges are going well for you, long may it continue.

I always use the progesterone drops last thing at night after cleaning my teeth.   I don't worry about eating beforehand but I don't usually eat just before bedtime.   I don't eat after teeth cleaning anyway but it does say in the instructions that you should not eat or drink anything for half an hour.

CrispyChick, I too was short on progesterone from about mid 30s which was when my panic attacks started - now completely disappeared luckily.   I now realise that it was a lack of progesterone that was partly responsible for the silent migraines which started when I was just 43. 

It will be interesting to see how you get on with a low dose of progesterone, I wish I had tried it myself but I was completely in the dark about it back then.   

Good luck and please keep us posted on your progress.

[Hurdity]

Good to hear that update Mary G.

I've now started my journey with the compounded BHRT sector... Currently undertaking all my initial tests. I'm very excited...

I find the progesterone stories very interesting. Particularly your point on synthetic or utro at one dose being too much.

At 45, I think it very probable I've been low in prog, rather than estrogen - something the NHS doesn't seem to consider.  . But I have no doubt in my mind that if I suddenly started supplementing with utrogestan alone it would be far too much!!!

I like the sound of the drops. 👍

Good to hear that update Mary G.

I've now started my journey with the compounded BHRT sector... Currently undertaking all my initial tests. I'm very excited...

I find the progesterone stories very interesting. Particularly your point on synthetic or utro at one dose being too much.

At 45, I think it very probable I've been low in prog, rather than estrogen - something the NHS doesn't seem to consider.  . But I have no doubt in my mind that if I suddenly started supplementing with utrogestan alone it would be far too much!!!

I like the sound of the drops. 👍

Good to hear that update Mary G.

I've now started my journey with the compounded BHRT sector... Currently undertaking all my initial tests. I'm very excited...

I find the progesterone stories very interesting. Particularly your point on synthetic or utro at one dose being too much.

At 45, I think it very probable I've been low in prog, rather than estrogen - something the NHS doesn't seem to consider.  . But I have no doubt in my mind that if I suddenly started supplementing with utrogestan alone it would be far too much!!!

I like the sound of the drops. 👍

Hi Crispychick - re being low in prog. Yes many women produce less progesterone during peri-menopause and especially during anovulatory cycles - which can lead to all sorts of bleeding problems. So if this is happening to you at 45 now (?) then thats why.

However progesterone is only produced in high amounts during the second half of the menstrual cycle to prepare for fertilisation of the egg - we do produce progesterone in small amounts all the time which does perform other functions in the body. Replacing progesterone as part of HRT is to protect the womb and redress this balance (eg to regulate periods) rather than any therapeutic reason or to relieve other symptoms.

Some women (the minority from what I underdstand) like the sedative effect of progesterone and so like to take it for this reason - more as a drug than as an essential hormone.

It is well known that many women do not like to taske the large doses of progesterone they have to do as part of HRT. Notwithstanding the shocking lack of choice for women in progestogen preparations and dosing, it is essential that progesterone is given in sufficient doses to protect the endometrium and many of us feel this is the downside.  Yes it would be great if there were a 50 mg dose - and medically supervised alternate day vagina dosing (or longer cycles) is one way to achieve this with lower doses of oestrogen.

Meanwhile it (prog) must be given at high enough doses to protect the womb if taking oestrogen because it has a short biological life in the body, and also with high doses of oestrogen more is needed.

The bottom line is that any of these compounded progesterone products are not regulated nor standardised (and not approved by BMS) so it is not known whether they will be sufficient to protect the womb. OK this can be achieved by regular scans - but this is likely to be extremely costly on an ongoing basis and out of the reach of most women.

The other thing I want to point out to anyone thinking that drops or lozenges are the way to go - is that this is equivalent to a transdermal mode of delivery ( which doesn't exist for progesterone, only for artificial progestogens) in that the progesterone is absorbed systemically directly into the bloodstream compared with oral delivery which goes through the digestive system. For women who are intolerant of prog thius may not be the saviour they are seeking. Vaginal delivery is the one method that  goes directly to the uterus and even though is absorbed systemically too - lower doses can be given for the same level of protect the womb because more of it is held at the uterus where it is needed. I think it is important for women to be aware of this.

We certainly need more options available on NHS!


Hurdity x

[Mary G]

CrispyChick, having actually used these products myself and therefore with the benefit of first hand experience, I have found both the progesterone lozenges and drops have far fewer side effects than the dreaded 100mg vaginal Utrogestan.   However, your clinic will give you the option of either buccal (lozenges) sublingual (drops) transdermal (cream) oral or vaginal application.  You have a choice of application and dose which is vital to success.

To reassure you, I recently switched to progesterone drops but had been using the lozenges for three years with conventional Oestrogel and testosterone and all my uterine scans have been well below the recommended 4mm.

Good luck and keep us posted.

[CrispyChick]

Thanks all for your views and experience.

The bottom line is I don't know what hormonal imbalance is causing my symptoms. Some symptoms point to low estrogen, some to estrogen dominance.

What I do know is I'm not prepared to live another 5 years in this symptomatic hell.

I am going into this with my eyes wide open. At my age (45) progesterone can commonly decline leaving an inbalance (estrogen dominance) but not nessecarily excess estrogen. The NHS can not help me with my symptoms.... Therefore I have no other option.

I'll happy 'try' compounded progesterone if if might work. And I really appreciate hearing the experience of others on this forum.

Yes, the scans and bloods etc are expensive and out of reach of many. But, after 5 years of no solution, I've decided to pay that money (I really would rather not). If it doesn't work, I won't be paying it long term. If it does work, I'll happily forgo other luxuries in life to get back some much needed quality of life.

I should add I'm in Scotland and therfore unlikely to be prescribed utrogestan... So that's yet another hurdle.

So, I'm sure there is no lady out there that would choose unlicensed medicines over licenced, if they could get what they needed through the licenced route. These woman are desperate to resolve symptoms.

So, I appreciate hearing real hand experience and I too will, in time, share my experience of compounded BHRT... Good or bad, in the hope I can help others.

 

[Marchlove]

Hi Mary G.
Just started on the Progesterone lozenge and it’s taken 50 minutes to dissolve! Any tips would be appreciated.
Also my lozenges contain polyethylene glycol which I’m not too keen on, do you know what your drops contain? xx

[Mary G]

Marchlove, I always took the lozenges at bedtime so I didn't really know how long they took to dissolve.

My drops are pure progesterone with an ODS base.  I've no idea what that is but I'm still doing well on them!

If you are allergic to the ingredients in the lozenges, you can ask to switch to something else and I would suggest the bespoke progesterone cream which is now available.

I hope that helps.

[Marchlove]

Yes it does Mary G, thank you.
It’s still very early days, so I’ll see how I get on and report back.