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Author Topic: Menopause and inflammation  (Read 4720 times)

CLKD

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Re: Menopause and inflammation
« Reply #15 on: January 02, 2020, 03:05:35 PM »

Tnx.  I began with allergic rhinitis after moving to Wales.  Wetter than the Fens.  I discovered years later that I am slightly sensitive to cat dander ........... once our cats passed over symptoms improved.  Also if DH keeps the bedroom hoovered thoroughly I don't snuffle in the night  ::)

Asthma and exceama 'go' together and can be inherited.  I am sensitive to onions which I love  ::).  Mum developed a shell fish reaction in her mid-40s where she would develop breast lumps which had to be removed.
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Ladybt28

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Re: Menopause and inflammation
« Reply #16 on: January 02, 2020, 03:44:55 PM »

Yes it is anecdotal and all said with hindsight Elk :) I think what I am saying is that as a child there was some underlying reason why I was prone to so many illnesses.  As I understand it tonsilitisis is a strep infection and it was an alarmingly recurrent theme. I might suggest that it is probable that the other infections came out of a weakened immune system due to the tonsillitis.  Oh and by the way if I makes any sense to any of you wonderful science people I was born to a mother with rheumatoid arthritis.

In my thinking once you move on from the fact I suffered from all this stuff, you get to how it was treated. So the tonsillitis was 2 weeks in bed on antibiotics.  This happened 3/4/5 times a year until it culminated into the complete collapse into a bout of rheumatic fever.  In hindsight I would say that the inflammatory response was no longer held at bay by the antibiotics or my own immune system (which I think was weakened by the antibiotics and not helped) into ever increasingly nasty infections.
The tonsils were taken out at age 13 so I was going through puberty and I reckon all those drugs for 11 years changed some chemical make up somewhere.  Depression and anxiety set in soon after and continued.  I was a pre-eclampsic in both pregnancies and had bad post natal depression. The AD's didn't work to solve the depression but just made me numb so I could live on a barely functioning basis.  They made no difference to mood or pain, or anything at all.

The real light came on when I was taken into hospital with sepsis in March 17 and pumped full of drugs to kill whatever it was was causing it (funny enough they couldn't find out what caused it which was worrying?).  When I came out my whole body was so much better and then I got my hrt right and also no aches pains and mood lifted most of the time.  I'm not dancing everyday (I think too much damage has been done with 40 years of AD's and other drugs that didn't work) but I think this how the average person is supposed to feel - which is relatively well!  My conclusion in hindsight is that the depression out of puberty was not "depression" but my problems from puberty diagnosed relatively along the way as chronic fatige/ME/Fibro/clinical depression etc etc is a faulty immune response combined with dodgy hormones.  Seems to make sense to me bad period, poor pregnancy, drug resistant issues and then hey ho, give me oestrogen, testosterone and progesterone (but only in a form my body could tolerate - tried 6 kinds of hrt before I got it to work) and it seems my health is as it should be after all these years of desperation.

I wonder, did the massive amount of antibiotics over 6 weeks kill all infection wherever it was hiding all those years in my body and then combine with the hormones to recalibrate the system?  I also wonder the hrt would have worked so well on their own without the massive wipeout of underlying infection or whatever was causing the inflammation.

Just a not 2 weeks at a time of antibiotics (in hindsight) was obviously not enough to kill once and for all any infections over the years and also no amount of anti-inflammatories controlled of killed off the immune response.  When any tests on inflammatory response was done over the years they were always on the higher side of the normal range so no doctor ever gave it a second thought.  There is one other interesting fact to throw in (to this rather long post and whether it makes difference or not to anyones' thoughts) but in 2016 I had a massive allergic reaction to one of my blood pressure meds despite having taken it for 3 years or more and was given massive doses of antihistamine and prednisolone intravenously and then in tablet form - I had the best month of my whole life EVER (it was so wonderful!!!) but then it went back to normal after that until now!

I am sure there is something to all of this but doctors have laughed when I have raised it? xx

 
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CLKD

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Re: Menopause and inflammation
« Reply #17 on: January 02, 2020, 04:09:04 PM »

Interesting.  Still interesting.

RA can occur with pregnancy.  A friend was wheel-chair bound by the end of the 9 months until her child was nearly 2 years old.  The condition then went away.

Another friend eats her way 'out' of diabetes.  Whilst I was aware that it can be diet controlled, in winter she is completely well.  When the weather heats up she has to B very careful of what she eats otherwise her blood sugars go haywire!

How much does immunisation contribute to all this?  Like most things in human life, infections are 'natural'.  Chemical intervention saves lives. However  :-\. So much still to learn about the Humanbeans ............  ;)

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Sgtvhilts

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Re: Menopause and inflammation
« Reply #18 on: January 02, 2020, 07:13:03 PM »

Nothing surprises me anymore.....
We humans are such complex beings.  I am not sure what i think about the theory.  Possible true for some.  Inflammation woudl usually cuase some degree of pain/discomfort so maybe it is the constant pain that causes the low mood, rather than the inflammation itself. I know it probably isn;t true for me as when my CRP was 300 i didn;t feel any more or less depressed than when it was 0.  I have suffered with anxiety and depression for the best part of 30 yrs.  It had always responded to the SSRI's, until................meno kicked in, nothing seemed to shift it.  Interestingly enough that was when my CRP came back as 0.  The only thing that worked was the Oestrogen in combo with the SSRI.
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Penelope

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Re: Menopause and inflammation
« Reply #19 on: January 02, 2020, 07:38:55 PM »

LadyBt I have just read your story and I must say read it with horror.You really need to ask the doctor on your next visit to do you a thyroid antibodies test!What you have had as a child is classic thyroid.
It's taken me 26 years to get the simple blood tes done because I had not heard of it and bingo it came back positive and explains why I have felt menopausal since I was a teenager.🌹
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Ladybt28

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Re: Menopause and inflammation
« Reply #20 on: January 02, 2020, 07:39:47 PM »

Maybe that is the key Sgvhilts - oestrogen and SSRI's.  Fancy your CRP coming back at 0 when it had been at some point 300?
Could support the theory that inflammation in the brain can be the source of depression?
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Ladybt28

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Re: Menopause and inflammation
« Reply #21 on: January 02, 2020, 07:56:41 PM »

Yep it's quite horrific and I don't mention it very often except when it comes up on here and none of it made any sense at all until menopause..I just thought I was a sick person and that was my whole life and it would never change but sorry Penelope to have to tell you but whenever they have done thyroid tests they all come back within the "normal range".  Having said that as far as I am aware in the UK unlike the USA or France I think they don't do the full range TS3/TS4 and all the others etc so the result is skewed. I have looked at the thyroid sites often over the years and the UK ones miss out important bits so if you are borderline it is easy to fall into the UK's "normal ranges".  People who do have thyroid issues find this all the time.  About 15 years ago I did have a doctor who thought outside the box for once and gave me low dose thyroxine meds but it didn't seem to make any difference and he left the practice soon after and the new doctor threw his hand up in horror and took them away!

Glad you go yourself sorted anyway but there are others of us who struggle with what should seem on the surface to be simple but because it covers such broad symptoms.  Its definitely a women thing which says to me hormones because Elkwarning said earlier in post that more women suffer chronic fatigue, ME like symptoms, depression, anxiety that sort of thing more than men.
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CLKD

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Re: Menopause and inflammation
« Reply #22 on: January 02, 2020, 08:09:56 PM »

Get referred to an endocrinologist?  LadyBt you are correct: GPs won't go on symptoms but if thyroid is 'within normal limits' which is different to other parts of the World apparently, the sufferer won't get treated!

Scandallous!
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Penelope

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Re: Menopause and inflammation
« Reply #23 on: January 02, 2020, 08:18:02 PM »

Hi lady Bt.I see you have been down that track and have been told the same story that you are in the normal range.yes you can be but still be extremely ill.The test you need to get is called a thyroid antibodies test.It will tell you if you have Hashimoto's thyroiditis.Forget all about the TSH ones now and go straight for the best test.

In New Zealand we are gathering a petition  for parliament.I have put the link below.
It will blow women and men away what they are asking for our doctors and endocrinologist to start doing and it's terrible to think it is this bad but it is.We are being denied a diagnosis and sent away to feel like it's all in our head and it's not.

Where you live will be know different .

Your doctor trying you on thyroid meds is extremely interesting.Please read the link below scroll down to under the pictures where it tells you that many thyroid meds do not work.And you should be diagnosed on Symptoms alone not the TSH tests.
Are you on HRT?
Please report back if you get the tests.

https://our.actionstation.org.nz/petitions/help-nz-thyroid-patients-get-treatment-that-works-1


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Sgtvhilts

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Re: Menopause and inflammation
« Reply #24 on: January 02, 2020, 08:31:34 PM »

Nah, Ladybt28-
I was my ******gallbladder(acute cholecystytis) with gastic flu on top- what a great time that was.  Thankfully gallbladder now in bin, with its marble sized stones.  My CRP came back down once the damn thing was out.
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Ladybt28

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Re: Menopause and inflammation
« Reply #25 on: January 03, 2020, 01:49:22 AM »

Hi Penelope - yes I am on hrt and I had to try 6 kinds before I got one that worked.  Here in the UK we have the same problems as you with diagnosis and no people are not being diagnosed properly.  It's not going to change here anytime soon though, its just not on the agenda and it has been a problem for people with thyroid issues for a very long time.

We are having trouble also with other basic tests.  I cannot get my GP or my NHS meno clinic to conduct blood tests for my hrt nor can I get a womb scan on the NHS, I would have to go private.  They are just prescribing now and the follow ups are a bit non-existent in some parts of the country and the prescribing of hrt is also patchy.  Some places it's really good others just terrible.
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Penelope

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Re: Menopause and inflammation
« Reply #26 on: January 03, 2020, 06:39:20 AM »

hi sgtvhilts


The Link Between Fat Malabsorption, Gallstone Disease and Hashimoto's Thyroid

People with Hashimoto's and hypothyroidism often experience fat malabsorption issues and have an increased risk for gallbladder problems, as the thyroid can affect the composition of bile and its ability to flow.

The lack of thyroxine (free T4), as seen in hypothyroidism, decreases liver cholesterol metabolism. This results in changes to the bile composition itself, which then leads to what is called a state of bile cholesterol supersaturation. This thickens the bile and impairs it by slowing its rate of flow.

Decreased bile flow impacts an important process called peristalsis, which involves wave-like muscle contractions that push food and bile through the intestines. As peristalsis is reduced, many people experience constipation, with up to 15 percent of hypothyroid patients reporting to have fewer than three bowel movements weekly.

As digestion slows down, there can also be increased bacterial growth, which can then result in diarrhea.

Furthermore, the change in bile composition and delayed flow can cause the liver's cholesterol to crystalize, forming gallbladder stones, or gallstones (solid particles that block the common bile duct, pancreatic duct, and cause inflammation of the gallbladder).

The lack of thyroxine associated with hypothyroidism can also affect the sphincter of Oddi (layers of muscle that regulate the flow of bile into the small intestine/duodenum, which close between meals, preventing bile from continuing to flow into the small intestine when it isn't needed). The sphincter may experience increased tension, which can prevent normal bile flow. This has been thought to contribute to the formation of common bile duct stones, as well as gallstones.

Thus, it's not surprising that there is an increased prevalence of hypothyroidism found in patients with common bile duct stones. In fact, patients with common bile duct stones and gallstones have, respectively, 7-fold and 3-fold increases in the frequency of hypothyroidism.

Experiments with hypothyroid rats have confirmed the thyroxine effect on bile composition, decreased bile flow and relaxation of the sphincter of Oddi. Research in rats has also shown that the administration of thyroid hormone improves bile flow – suggesting that there is a strong correlation between developing gallbladder issues and hypothyroidism.

There are also indirect effects relating to bile production in those with thyroid disease.

Remember that when you have issues with bile production, you can have deficiencies in essential fat soluble vitamins such as vitamins A, E, D, and K, as well as fatty acids. Vitamin D deficiency is commonly found in people with Hashimoto's. Some 68 percent of my readers have reported having a diagnosed vitamin D deficiency. In fact, when I know someone has been supplementing with vitamin D, but still tests as deficient, I view that as an important clue that they may have fat malabsorption issues. The lack of key vitamins and fatty acid deficiencies can cause a whole host of additional symptoms, and can further impact thyroid hormone conversion (T4 to the active T3 hormone).

Furthermore, poor bile flow can lead to a recirculation of toxins such as heavy metals and excess hormones.

As you may know, nutrient depletions and impaired detoxification pathways are often the root causes of Hashimoto's symptoms, so it's important to address the gallbladder and bile issues that may be at the root of these issues.

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Sgtvhilts

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Re: Menopause and inflammation
« Reply #27 on: January 03, 2020, 08:44:34 PM »

NOt sure what caused my stones, but i know there is huge genetic component to mine.
Since my gall bladder has gone i really do feel a different person. NO gut rot, constipation etc and inflamatory markers o- yay.
As for Hashimoto- my thyroid levels have always been normal and it is not something i've looked into- i'm not going looking at the mo as i am 'avoiding ' the dr's and as long as they keep giving me my stuff on repeat then i'll stay away.  I have lost considerable faith in them having been 'diagnosed' with IBS and gastritis before the acute gall bladder crisis also with Meno clinic just spouting off the NICE guidlines- they can all , for now DO ONE!!!! LOL
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ElkWarning

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Re: Menopause and inflammation
« Reply #28 on: January 03, 2020, 08:57:23 PM »

Very very interesting. It's with some horror I recognise Hashimoto. My sister has it. Never knew what it was - she lives abroad and she just casually dropped it into a conversation about her health, and I remember she said it hadn't been treated for years ...

If they don't test for it in the NHS, is it possible to get one privately?
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ElkWarning

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Re: Menopause and inflammation
« Reply #29 on: January 03, 2020, 09:09:03 PM »

Sorry, my horror continues... high bp that they're finding difficult to control and inexplicable inability to lose weight, even when quadrupling my exercise while halving my calorie intake. They even said that on the face of it it looks like thyroid but the tests keep coming back normal.
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