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[itsmejojo]

Need some advice please! I'd been on 2 pumps of gel for about 6 months and feeling great but hot flushes and night sweats returned about 3 weeks ago so slowly increased to 3 with no improvement and now been on 4 for about 10 days still with no improvement. I'm terrified the other symptoms will return too. I guess I'm still peri although my periods were very intermittent for over a year before starting HRT so I don't really know where I am. I use 100mg utro vaginally for 12 days and have a bleed for about 5 days.  Do I need to be more patient?  Worried I'm not absorbing the gel properly? Would I be better off with patches?  Is it coincidence that symptoms returned when the gel prescribed changed from Oestrodose to Oestrogel...I've read conflicting things.  Also read that too much gel will cause flushes and sweats.
Thanks x

[KiltedCupid]

Hi itsmejojo - I had exactly the same problem as you and it turned out I was a poor gel absorber. I'm fine on patches though. Oestrodose was even worse, for me, I needed at least a pump or 2 more of that to stay on top of flushes night sweats etc. You can get Oestrogel online with a prescription. In my opinion, it's a superior product.

Good luck.

[itsmejojo]

Thanks KiltedCupid so you were on 5/6 pumps per day? Out of interest which patches are you using and are you having trouble getting them?

[Hurdity]

Need some advice please! I'd been on 2 pumps of gel for about 6 months and feeling great but hot flushes and night sweats returned about 3 weeks ago so slowly increased to 3 with no improvement and now been on 4 for about 10 days still with no improvement. I'm terrified the other symptoms will return too. I guess I'm still peri although my periods were very intermittent for over a year before starting HRT so I don't really know where I am. I use 100mg utro vaginally for 12 days and have a bleed for about 5 days.  Do I need to be more patient?  Worried I'm not absorbing the gel properly? Would I be better off with patches?  Is it coincidence that symptoms returned when the gel prescribed changed from Oestrodose to Oestrogel...I've read conflicting things.  Also read that too much gel will cause flushes and sweats.
Thanks x

Fortunately any hearsay or anecdotal info about Oestrodose vs Oestrogel is just that - hearsay - with some women reporting worsening on changing to dose from gel and others to gel from dose.  I wrote to the manfuacturers and these are just different names for the same product but with different packaging - as a result of parallel impooirting from EU - it's made by Besins in Belgium. Some women feel they prefer one or the other and so make sure they get that one, and others don't mind one jot which they have!

If you are peri-menopausal then your own hormones going up and down will have an impact on how you feel as normal HRT does not suppress ovulation.

Personally I would wait for longer than 10 days before deciding you need to further increase your dose of gel. There is a stronger gel called Sandrena that comes in sachets, otherwsie you might be better off with a patch - but i would give it a while yet. How long were you on 3 pumps for?

Incidentally I happily used Estradot patches for 12 years untikl the current shortage and now changed to Estraderm (so far so good) but we all absorb differently.

Hope you see an improvement soon

Hurdity x

[KiltedCupid]

As someone who's used both products, I can categorically say it's not hearsay, gossip or any other form of tittle tattle. I've used the products and I don't care what the research or correspondence has dug up, they work differently. Why on earth would gynaes prescribe one over the other and further, why would ladies say they felt a difference - just for fun? It's unfair to question women on their experiences with a product, particularly if you personally haven't experienced it. Very unfair.

itsmejojo - I think I got up to 5 pumps of oestrodose and still had symptoms. In retrospect it was oestrodose that sent me into a tailspin with decreasing oestrogen levels but because I'd no idea there was a difference in the gels, I let it go on for too long and my oestrogen ended up very low. I'm now happily using fem7 patches which I got no problem online. I've also used estraderm, evorel and estradot. Fem7 seems to be the best for me in terms of steady delivery but it's a really personal thing and you'd need to try them yourself. Fem7 is the only weekly change patch. It's possible to have sweats when increasing oestrogen and utro can cause sweats too. The utro sweats are more like a burning up kind of heat than the traditional flush. When I was on a cycle, the utro heat would start on about day 2 and I'd burn up every night until I stopped the utro. I was exactly the same with my natural prog.  Have you seen a pattern with your sweats?

[Hurdity]

As someone who's used both products, I can categorically say it's not hearsay, gossip or any other form of tittle tattle. I've used the products and I don't care what the research or correspondence has dug up, they work differently. Why on earth would gynaes prescribe one over the other and further, why would ladies say they felt a difference - just for fun? It's unfair to question women on their experiences with a product, particularly if you personally haven't experienced it. Very unfair.

As you are new member kilted cupid you probably don't know that this subject has come up many times and there is a massive long thread devoted to it earlier this year.  I don't want to derail itsmejojo's thread by getting into an argument about this so might I respectfully suggest that you have a read of it - where I have reported on the correspondence with Besins as well as with Louise Newson towards the end.  It goes off on sometimes a bit fanciful and irrelevant tangents from time to time but the main points are there to see:
https://www.menopausematters.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,40586.135.html

Also itsmejojo asked a question specifically about oestrodose ve oestrogel to which I responded. She asked if it was coincidence. She said she had read conflicting things - some of which will be hearsay - like it was on this forum before I wrote to the manufacturers - with members coming up with all sorts of incorrect information about these. Personal experiences are of course valid - but that doesn't mean the relationship is causal. ie I've changed from X to Y and I feel worse therefore the cause must be Y - especially if X and Y are the same!!! Possible explanations for why women report differences are explored at length on that thread.

Just to add that this forum is not just about personal experiences – which are obviously really valuable – but also about evidence based information as well as advice and support.  It is not necessary to experience something in order to read about and understand the principles behind it – isn't that what medicine is all about? Much of the information on which docs, nurses, menopause counsellor's etc base their advice and judgement is available to a lesser degree on the internet and in journals, papers and statements – and we educate ourselves and offer advice accordingly, while at the same time frequently recommending visits to GPs! As has been said often on this forum some of us know a lot more than some GPs about this subject – (menopause and HRT) – and that's not trying to big ourselves up – just that we've had the time and inclination to read a lot about it over the years – and try to help others by sharing what we've gleaned!

Itsmejojo – apologies to get a bit sidetracked on your thread but hope you've got enough info to be going on with? The gel/dose issue has been knocking around for some time. At my last visit to my local surgery dispensary there was no trouble getting Estraderm but Estradot was unavailable from their suppliers – although may still be somewhere in the supply chain – but you'd have to know (or ring round maybe? Both of these (as well as Evorel which I used briefly when i first started HRT) are twice weekly patches as opposed to Femseven which is a weekly one (only the oestrogen only one is still available). Personally I wouldn't want to go onto a weekly one - but that's just me! I change mine every 3 days.

Hope this helps

Hurdity x

[KiltedCupid]

As someone who's used both products, I can categorically say it's not hearsay, gossip or any other form of tittle tattle. I've used the products and I don't care what the research or correspondence has dug up, they work differently. Why on earth would gynaes prescribe one over the other and further, why would ladies say they felt a difference - just for fun? It's unfair to question women on their experiences with a product, particularly if you personally haven't experienced it. Very unfair.

As you are new member kilted cupid you probably don't know that this subject has come up many times and there is a massive long thread devoted to it earlier this year.  I don't want to derail itsmejojo's thread by getting into an argument about this so might I respectfully suggest that you have a read of it - where I have reported on the correspondence with Besins as well as with Louise Newson towards the end.  It goes off on sometimes a bit fanciful and irrelevant tangents from time to time but the main points are there to see:
https://www.menopausematters.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,40586.135.html

Also itsmejojo asked a question specifically about oestrodose ve oestrogel to which I responded. She asked if it was coincidence. She said she had read conflicting things - some of which will be hearsay - like it was on this forum before I wrote to the manufacturers - with members coming up with all sorts of incorrect information about these. Personal experiences are of course valid - but that doesn't mean the relationship is causal. ie I've changed from X to Y and I feel worse therefore the cause must be Y - especially if X and Y are the same!!! Possible explanations for why women report differences are explored at length on that thread.

Just to add that this forum is not just about personal experiences – which are obviously really valuable – but also about evidence based information as well as advice and support.  It is not necessary to experience something in order to read about and understand the principles behind it – isn't that what medicine is all about? Much of the information on which docs, nurses, menopause counsellor's etc base their advice and judgement is available to a lesser degree on the internet and in journals, papers and statements – and we educate ourselves and offer advice accordingly, while at the same time frequently recommending visits to GPs! As has been said often on this forum some of us know a lot more than some GPs about this subject – (menopause and HRT) – and that's not trying to big ourselves up – just that we've had the time and inclination to read a lot about it over the years – and try to help others by sharing what we've gleaned!

Itsmejojo – apologies to get a bit sidetracked on your thread but hope you've got enough info to be going on with? The gel/dose issue has been knocking around for some time. At my last visit to my local surgery dispensary there was no trouble getting Estraderm but Estradot was unavailable from their suppliers – although may still be somewhere in the supply chain – but you'd have to know (or ring round maybe? Both of these (as well as Evorel which I used briefly when i first started HRT) are twice weekly patches as opposed to Femseven which is a weekly one (only the oestrogen only one is still available). Personally I wouldn't want to go onto a weekly one - but that's just me! I change mine every 3 days.

Hope this helps

Hurdity x

Ok.

[itsmejojo]

Really helpful advice.  I was on 3 pumps for about 10 days so maybe not long enough. I try hard to keep an open mind which is why I thought the dose/gel move and return of symptoms was a coincidence.

I am having knee reconstruction surgery on 21 Nov so the patches may be the way forward if I can get them. I have a docs appointment on Friday so will discuss options with her, thankfully she is HRT friendly!

Thanks x


 

Need some advice please! I'd been on 2 pumps of gel for about 6 months and feeling great but hot flushes and night sweats returned about 3 weeks ago so slowly increased to 3 with no improvement and now been on 4 for about 10 days still with no improvement. I'm terrified the other symptoms will return too. I guess I'm still peri although my periods were very intermittent for over a year before starting HRT so I don't really know where I am. I use 100mg utro vaginally for 12 days and have a bleed for about 5 days.  Do I need to be more patient?  Worried I'm not absorbing the gel properly? Would I be better off with patches?  Is it coincidence that symptoms returned when the gel prescribed changed from Oestrodose to Oestrogel...I've read conflicting things.  Also read that too much gel will cause flushes and sweats.
Thanks x

Fortunately any hearsay or anecdotal info about Oestrodose vs Oestrogel is just that - hearsay - with some women reporting worsening on changing to dose from gel and others to gel from dose.  I wrote to the manfuacturers and these are just different names for the same product but with different packaging - as a result of parallel impooirting from EU - it's made by Besins in Belgium. Some women feel they prefer one or the other and so make sure they get that one, and others don't mind one jot which they have!

If you are peri-menopausal then your own hormones going up and down will have an impact on how you feel as normal HRT does not suppress ovulation.

Personally I would wait for longer than 10 days before deciding you need to further increase your dose of gel. There is a stronger gel called Sandrena that comes in sachets, otherwsie you might be better off with a patch - but i would give it a while yet. How long were you on 3 pumps for?

Incidentally I happily used Estradot patches for 12 years untikl the current shortage and now changed to Estraderm (so far so good) but we all absorb differently.

Hope you see an improvement soon

Hurdity x

[itsmejojo]

I have a feeling patches are the way forward if I can get them!! I'm seeing doc on Friday so will discuss the options. With knee surgery coming up next month, applying gel will be one less thing to think about too! There hasn't really been a pattern which there def was before I started HRT. I am sensitive to prog which is why I use 100 for 12 nights internally but this is by far the best method for me.

As someone who's used both products, I can categorically say it's not hearsay, gossip or any other form of tittle tattle. I've used the products and I don't care what the research or correspondence has dug up, they work differently. Why on earth would gynaes prescribe one over the other and further, why would ladies say they felt a difference - just for fun? It's unfair to question women on their experiences with a product, particularly if you personally haven't experienced it. Very unfair.

itsmejojo - I think I got up to 5 pumps of oestrodose and still had symptoms. In retrospect it was oestrodose that sent me into a tailspin with decreasing oestrogen levels but because I'd no idea there was a difference in the gels, I let it go on for too long and my oestrogen ended up very low. I'm now happily using fem7 patches which I got no problem online. I've also used estraderm, evorel and estradot. Fem7 seems to be the best for me in terms of steady delivery but it's a really personal thing and you'd need to try them yourself. Fem7 is the only weekly change patch. It's possible to have sweats when increasing oestrogen and utro can cause sweats too. The utro sweats are more like a burning up kind of heat than the traditional flush. When I was on a cycle, the utro heat would start on about day 2 and I'd burn up every night until I stopped the utro. I was exactly the same with my natural prog.  Have you seen a pattern with your sweats?

[Sammiejane]

hi ladies

have any of tried the femsevern conti and how have u got on ?

[KiltedCupid]

itsmejojo - ooh, knee op, my partner has had 3 and the full bhuna replacement last year. Apart from mobility being restricted early post op, you'll also be very tired for at least a week post op and the faff of remembering to apply gel will not be your main priority. That said, it's possible to apply oestrogel to upper, outer arms and shoulders so that might work?

Patches would defo be easier in terms of not having to apply daily. Ask your doc what she/he thinks and if you could trial them in light of your absorbing/surgery. At least if you have a prescription you can start the search for them..

Keep an eye on the hrtupdates thread as ladies post daily with what's available.

[Sammiejane]

hi kiltedcupid

how do you find the fem7 patch are these estrogen only ?

have you had any hairloss on them ?