Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[JayJay]

Hi KC
Thank you for your reply.
My gyni said that blood testing was not a great deal of use as it is a ‘snapshot' and would have to be carried out every day for a month, at the same time each day - pretty much what you said, really.
I take Utro 7 days per month, then have a small bleed of about two days.  I don't actually mind the bleed, nor do I appear to react badly to the prog.
I did read somewhere (Philip Kingsley trichologist) that Angelique had a hair friendly prog, but I believe this is a pill, now maybe discontinued in th UK.  I woulf prefer topical oestrogen if poss, either patch or gel.
Balance would appear to be the key, but I am worried about taking too much oestrogen.
Regards
Jay

[Sammiejane]

Hi jay jay

Everyone assumes low estrogen causes hair loss ! I disagree as I had no estrogen or low estrogen for 4 years before starting hrt and didn't have hair loss now I'm on estrogen hey I'm shedding hair?

Plus I know people who have optimal levels of estrogen and are still shedding hair which would indicate that the estrogen itself is the problem I remember being on Microgynon 30 synthetic hormones in the pill and never had hair loss . And the pill overrides your natural hormones.
I'm at a loss as I've changed to a patch and hair is shedding more plus my vagina more dryer ? And sweating increased since stopping the gel I will give a little longer but maybe just doesn't suit me or I need a balance with progesterone and testosterone

[JayJay]

Hi SJ
I too was on various OCP for many years, starting with the old fashioned high dose, down to the lowest dose (20) until I WAS 59, when the Doc refused to give me any more.
No hair thinning or loss through these years, and my periods were light.  All good.
Straight into meno symptoms when I came off the pill, so onto hrt and eventual hair problems and heavy bleeds.
Have spent most of today reading through posts on this site and don't think I have come to a definite conclusion regarding my way forward.
Someone today did say that the important thing is to get the estrogen levels to a ‘sweet spot', then move forward from there.
Please keep in touch and let me know how you get on.
Best wishes
Jay

[KiltedCupid]

Hi KC
Thank you for your reply.
My gyni said that blood testing was not a great deal of use as it is a ‘snapshot' and would have to be carried out every day for a month, at the same time each day - pretty much what you said, really.
I take Utro 7 days per month, then have a small bleed of about two days.  I don't actually mind the bleed, nor do I appear to react badly to the prog.
I did read somewhere (Philip Kingsley trichologist) that Angelique had a hair friendly prog, but I believe this is a pill, now maybe discontinued in th UK.  I woulf prefer topical oestrogen if poss, either patch or gel.
Balance would appear to be the key, but I am worried about taking too much oestrogen.
Regards
Jay

Hi jayjay - your gynae is right but, a blood test for all sex hormones, thyroid, ferritin and vitamins b & d once a year is useful for all post meno women and of course surgical meno women to see where there levels are and what my have changed. Some of my last results were not optimal, particularly ferritin and I've made changes to try and bring them into a more stable level. It's really up to you, but if something feels persistently ‘off' I'd have a blood test and take it from there. Angeliq has an anti androgen prog which can help ladies with hormone related acne and possibly hair issues. The prog is made from Sprionolactone and is different from any other progesterone or testosterone derived prog. I've tried Angeliq and I liked it, but,  it's low dose oral oestrogen and I found the prog too dominant. My gynae said I could top it up with a pump of gel as it's heavy on prog. That didn't help me, probably because I don't absorb gel well. It also gave me VA as due to its anti androgen element it just dried everything up. It also dampened libido.

[KiltedCupid]

Hi SJ
I too was on various OCP for many years, starting with the old fashioned high dose, down to the lowest dose (20) until I WAS 59, when the Doc refused to give me any more.
No hair thinning or loss through these years, and my periods were light.  All good.
Straight into meno symptoms when I came off the pill, so onto hrt and eventual hair problems and heavy bleeds.
Have spent most of today reading through posts on this site and don't think I have come to a definite conclusion regarding my way forward.
Someone today did say that the important thing is to get the estrogen levels to a ‘sweet spot', then move forward from there.
Please keep in touch and let me know how you get on.
Best wishes
Jay

JayJay - your levels on CCP would drop considerably on HRT. Synthetic oestrogen is, I believe, 3 times more potent that bio oestrogen, so if you were on 1mg EE that equates to 3mg bio E or 4 pumps of gel, give or take. You might find that increasing your gel would help with your hair issues, your body has taken a severe drop.

[KiltedCupid]

Hi jay jay

Everyone assumes low estrogen causes hair loss ! I disagree as I had no estrogen or low estrogen for 4 years before starting hrt and didn't have hair loss now I'm on estrogen hey I'm shedding hair?

Plus I know people who have optimal levels of estrogen and are still shedding hair which would indicate that the estrogen itself is the problem I remember being on Microgynon 30 synthetic hormones in the pill and never had hair loss . And the pill overrides your natural hormones.
I'm at a loss as I've changed to a patch and hair is shedding more plus my vagina more dryer ? And sweating increased since stopping the gel I will give a little longer but maybe just doesn't suit me or I need a balance with progesterone and testosterone

Sammiejane - the CCP does override your hormones but microgynon 30 contains the equivalent, roughly, of a 150mcg Oestradiol patch or 6 pumps of gel. That's a lot of oestrogen, which of course, younger women need but we need less as we get older. The women you know who have optimum levels of oestrogen and still shed may also have an underlying health issue they're not aware of and there's also a genetic element. I have read articles which say that very high levels of oestrogen can cause hair shedding, but they'd need to be really high. You seem determined to add testosterone and progesterone into your hrt but please consult your gynae before you do in order that your levels are monitored.

[Hurdity]

Hi kilted Cupid

What progesterone cream are u using ?

Hi Sammiejane - I don't use a prog cream anymore as I found the effects built up and made me depressed and spacey. Prog creams on this forum = can & worms. Some are pro and some are anti but a quick search of OTC progesterone cream will reveal that any discussions on such usual end up in Handbags At Dawn scenario with fur flying in all directions.

This is just my opinion, and I'm not medically qualified, but I've been round the HRT block a few times and for more years than I care to remember; GET YOUR OESTROGEN LEVEL STABLE. I cannot emphasise this enough Sammiejane, because if you start adding dribs and drabs of other hormones, you'll end up in a pickle not knowing what's doing what, and may exacerbate your hair shedding as your body is in a spin.

One step at a time. Oestrogen first, it needs to be at least 200 pmol, so that's twice what you are just now and I bet you'll feel so much better when you're there. I think you should drop back to a 50 patch as that's around the equivalent of what you had in gel. Easy and slow and you'll get there.

Sammiejane - I really wouldn't waste your money re the OTC progesterone cream. It is very expensive and very weak and any effect is most likely to be placebo (although placebo effect can be powerful sometimes). I agree with Kilted Cupid that having a decent oestrogen level is first and foremost the primary objective of HRT and if you have a womb, then having a progestogen that you can tolerate in order to achieve this. After that then T replacement should be conisdered and especially after surgical menopause.

Kilted Cupid - have you been a member of this forum before or know someone who is? Nice to know of returning members and what they were called previously as some of us "old" hands remember members from years back and can say hi!

Oh dear this thread has gone completely off topic - we must apologise to MIS71MUM and anyone else looking for info on Oestrogel, as that topic was covered in the first few posts! 

Hurdity x

[KiltedCupid]

Hurdity, I can assure you, the effects I had from OTC progesterone cream WERE NOT placebo. It's rather offensive to suggest they were.

SammieJane - I hope you're not confused by all the conflicting opinions on HRT. The rule of thumb is, get your oestrogen level stable and add other hormones from there. Good luck.

[dangermouse]

The progesterone is the creams is micronised so exactly like Utrogestan but in more normal quantities, rather than the overdose you get hit with on the Utro.

It used to make my cycles return to 28 days so defo not placebo. There is a lot of nonsense written about compounded creams and sadly those who haven't used them believe it, when they could in fact greatly help them.

Like any hormones though you have to get the balance right and that is tricky to do when they're surging about so much in peri and early post meno.

[KiltedCupid]

Dangermouse - I agree entirely with what you say; otc progesterone creams have a progestogenic effect, no doubt about that. I've never used them to control a cycle so I don't know their effect in that respect but in terms of exerting the effects of progesterone without the sledgehammer effect of utrogestan, they work. I can fully understand why surgical meno women use them to balance their oestrogen replacement as they have a calming effect and most definitely help with sleep. I think the trick, like all hrt, is finding just the right amount for balance. The ladies on hystersisters always provide a useful experienced-based view.

[JayJay]

Hi KC
I too have used otc prog creams in the past, (internet and EBay) and found them to be calming and helpful with lack of sleep and anxiety.
Read so much adverse press about them that I thought I must be delusional, and confined them to the back of the wardrobe with the rest of my stash.
Back to Oestogel - and balance thereof - herein lies the key, it would appear.
So to phone GP tomorrow to request blood tests.
Battle Royale, no doubt.
I sometimes think it's a good thing I don't carry a gun.  ( Joke ). 🤠
Good luck y'all
Jay Jay

[JayJay]

Hi jay jay

Everyone assumes low estrogen causes hair loss ! I disagree as I had no estrogen or low estrogen for 4 years before starting hrt and didn't have hair loss now I'm on estrogen hey I'm shedding hair?

Plus I know people who have optimal levels of estrogen and are still shedding hair which would indicate that the estrogen itself is the problem I remember being on Microgynon 30 synthetic hormones in the pill and never had hair loss . And the pill overrides your natural hormones.
I'm at a loss as I've changed to a patch and hair is shedding more plus my vagina more dryer ? And sweating increased since stopping the gel I will give a little longer but maybe just doesn't suit me or I need a balance with progesterone and testosterone

Sammiejane - the CCP does override your hormones but microgynon 30 contains the equivalent, roughly, of a 150mcg Oestradiol patch or 6 pumps of gel. That's a lot of oestrogen, which of course, younger women need but we need less as we get older. The women you know who have optimum levels of oestrogen and still shed may also have an underlying health issue they're not aware of and there's also a genetic element. I have read articles which say that very high levels of oestrogen can cause hair shedding, but they'd need to be really high. You seem determined to add testosterone and progesterone into your hrt but please consult your gynae before you do in order that your levels are monitored.

Hello KC
I found your post fascinating, especially in relation to mcg equivalents to the OCP, as I was on Marvelon OCP pill (brilliant for years) which is a 30 mcg.
You say a patch 150 contains 150 mcg.  Sorry to appear stupid, but a patch lasts for 3.5 days, so would that be the equivalent release of approx 42.86 mcg per day ?
How many pumps would this equate to daily ?
Do apologise for bothering you, but this specific information is exciting me, as I have been unable to source it elsewhere in a comprehensive form.
Regards
JJ

[KiltedCupid]

JayJay - I think the daily release rates are available on each patch but the equivalent dose is the overall dose. Here's something I found on equivalents. Obviously absorption and symptom relief is individual but it gives an idea of equivalence.

https://www.earlymenopause.com/hrt-equivalencies/

[Mary G]

Dangermouse, well said, that is the most sensible view I have read on here regarding compounded progesterone, ever.  So many women put up with the dreaded Utrogestan (which is actually for pregnancy) when they could benefit greatly from a better form of micronised progesterone at a lower, more tolerable dose.   

[JayJay]

Hello Kilted
Do you know, I hadn't even thought of looking at the leaflet . . .
Your link is most helpful, so thank you.
Jay Jay