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[Wrensong]

Thanks Foxy - I so wish I could still take the stuff - was great for my tummy.  I'm a Greek yoghurt fan & have fruit at breakfast every day too.

You did well to sleep so well on shift work!
Wx

[Foxylady]

I know, makes a difference not having kids though, alot of my colleagues would get little sleep!!
Funny though how sleep is affected by hormones when I was diagnosed yrs ago with hypothyroid I worked 12hr shifts (3 weeks of 3, 1 week of 4) I spent my days off sleeping all day sooo exhausted & no periods for a year, now 15 or so years later it's not able to sleep that's been the issue!! x

[squeaker99]

Afternoon lovely ladies.

Happy to report I got a good 8 hours sleep with the aid of half a sleeping table and using some of the tips you all suggested yesterday.
Boy do I feel like a different person today.  The sun is shining!

What helped? Well I had dinner earlier at 5:30 and no caffeine after 2pm.  I did some of the '3 in 6 out' breathing for a good 15 minutes an hours before bedtime. I usually don't do it for that long but someone on here suggested it takes a while to kick in and it really got my heart rate down.   I had a nice 30 minute nap at 2pm  which goes against a lot of advice but I felt much more relaxed after.

I can tentatively say I have a different mindset.  If I get the ' you won't sleep' voice I try and picture it as a black and white image then shrink it down like you would volume on a remote. Or I picture Chris Helmsworth dressed as Thor waving his hammer saying ' Naughty naughty'. I just have to keep doing that over and over and accept it will take time to change what has become a bad habit.

Being reminded that good / better moments and days will come was a biggie - I smiled in bed last night at CLKDs image of kicking the bad thought out of touch       A smile and funny thought do diminish the non helpful thought.  I was also reminded yesterday by a sympathetic  GP that phone me that as we get older we need less sleep and not to worry about how many hours I was or wasn't getting which is what you read online.  ( She usually gets 5-6 on a good night she said! Maybe she was being kind to me). She said the body is good at regulating itself and will do naturally what it need to.

So I will have a few nights of half then quarter tablets to get my confidence back then keep going with the more relaxed approach.
No more Nitol or Kalms for me I think - there is something in them that makes me feel quite ill the next day.

(I also got my period this morning which suggests that hormones play a part in this. I never had PMT until 2 years ago so this could easily explain why my insomnia comes and goes . I went completely in the 4 months this year when I had no period).

I have always been anxious since being a child; part hereditary from my dad, part my ' role' in a difficult family set up, controlling mother etc so Peri has ramped up something that has always been there I think.

I am so very grateful to you for your posts and support.

[CLKD]

LIVE yoghurt has bacteria ;-).  Not the same as natural yoghurt, which may not.

Eating lots can cleanse the digestive tract throughout.  4 me it eases any thrush symptoms as that lives in the back passage and a few days of LIVE sorts it  .  Fruit however can cause gut problems if it's acidic - I'm waiting 4 the couple of pounds of fresh cherries, eaten on Tuesday, 2 catch up  .  I have another couple of pounds that I daren't touch until my bowel reacts 

What was the question 

Oh we have threads on awkward mothers too .......... mine is narcissistic and very difficult [My Mum!].  Do tell 

Granma didn't need as much sleep as she aged, probably from her 50s.  She would get up at 5.30 and do the housework so that she was ready for the day.  She would play with us on the beach or take us for walks.  She also cooked a lot and ran a B&B  . 

Often we think we don't sleep as much as we would like but when people to go sleep clinics for 3/4 nights, it is obvious that actually, they sleep in fits and starts.  But we remember waking and the thought patterns that start which keeps us awake.  That afternoon sleep can regenerate the body and I never stop my brain when it needs 2 switch off.  I think that 'experts' [how I HATE that word] have no idea how much sleeping to catch up helps.  Think of babies, one would never wake one .......
 
Who is Chris Helmsworth    what am I missing? 

[Foxylady]

  good news squeaker99, long may it continue!! (sleep & the sunshine! ) x

[Wrensong]

Well Squeaker, the image of Chris Hemsworth waving his hammer saying naughty naughty . . . would wake me right up!!

[CLKD]

  

[Wrensong]

Sorry - just couldn't resist that!  Now what did I really want to say?  Oh yes - so, so glad to know you had a better night Squeaker.  Yaaaaay!!

Yes - no caffeine after lunchtime is a great idea - they do say in some people it can take even 24 hrs to clear the system, so is perhaps best avoided altogether in anyone who has trouble sleeping, or is prone to migraine (sorry - don't shoot the messenger!)

I also did the 3/6 breathing - in the middle of last night when I woke & eventually got back to sleep.  Of a sort!

Don't be afraid to experiment with napping - you can always stop if it seems to worsen sleep, but like you I find when I'm really worn out a nap seems to prepare the body for better sleep later.  I think when you are exhausted & getting by on adrenalin, the fight or flight response becomes a chronic state & breaking that cycle with some form of relaxation by day can improve chances of sounder sleep at night.  Just my experience - may not work that way for everyone.  Some sleep experts advise against napping.  A case of one man's meat . . .

I find GPs can be some of the least sympathetic medics when it comes to sleep issues!  A Neuro I once saw was very concerned about my insomnia & told me to go straight to my GP "who will prescribe you something to help you sleep".  I did just that & she laughed & said "oh, we'd all like something for that" & that was the end of the topic!

Like you, I never had any PMS until the last few years before menopause proper.  Then I had it with a vengeance - horrific.  Made me feel so sorry for the many women who suffer with it all their fertile lives.

I really hope you've reached a turning point Squeaker.  Keep doing whatever seems to promise to work for you, experimenting with other approaches if need be.  Would be lovely to hear how you get on.
Wx 

[CLKD]

I drink 'coke' and black tea with two sugars several times a day.  Coffee makes me nauseous  .  DH drinks lots of coffee and never has trouble sleeping  .

[squeaker99]

Men in general in my experience have no trouble sleeping!
That is part of my problem. My husband is out cold as soon as his head hits the pillow, ditto my son,
leaving lonely old me with my book for half an hour with a cacophony of snoring. Nothing worse to make
you feel like you are missing out.

I remember as a kid on Christmas day all the men in the family would be asleep in the lounge by 3pm

Maybe we need some (female) scientists to research this.

[CLKD]

Good idea - a thesis for someone ?

[Wrensong]

Men are from Mars ladies - did you not know?!

Chris Hemsworth CLKD - big hunky Aussie actor.  Do keep up girl 

Foxy, you said

when I was diagnosed yrs ago with hypothyroid I worked 12hr shifts (3 weeks of 3, 1 week of 4) I spent my days off sleeping all day sooo exhausted & no periods for a year

  That must have been a very difficult time, keeping going when you were seriously hypothyroid - I take it you mean before treatment?  To go without periods for a year your endocrine system must have been seriously messed up.  Did it go undiagnosed for long do you think?  Can be hard for medics to be sure in initial stages as I'm sure you know.  Are you finding the thyroid condition complicates menopause for you?  I think we chatted about it on an earlier thread, but can't remember the gist, I'm afraid.

[Foxylady]

To be honest Wrensong there was lots going on in my life at that time, work, family, had moved elsewhere in the UK and I only went to the GP when my periods had stopped for a year! I'd over looked the sleep & other symptoms, OH says I went a bit loopy. It's only when I was diagnosed (which was straight forward GP did bloods straight away & started on Levothyroxine) that I looked back & after reading up about it realised how unwell I'd been. Noone at work had ever mentioned anything to me so I'm assuming I was compensating & functioning reasonably well at work, home different matter.
Yeh we have chatted about hypothyroid before, think it was yourself that made aware that HRT could affect absorption of thyroxine so I had TSH etc checked after 3 months on original regime, levels were fine, changed now still oestrogen patch but provera tablet probably ask for bloods after 3 months on this regime just to keep an eye. I've never knowingly had any issues with my thyroid since stable on 100mcg for over a decade!
To be honest I'm still fairly new to all this peri, HRT etc so still learning about how it might affect/impact my hypothyroidism.
I feel like I have had such long periods of time when I've been unwell & symptomatic with lots of different health issues, being diagnosed as peri at 41yr has been a huge relief (was being investigated for rare cancers etc) I have been waiting for it all to hit me emotionally but it hasn't other than being 'flat', not tearful at all. The human body is so complex and amazing, so much we don't know & are continuing to learn. How are you? x

[CLKD]

Drowsy ......... my lava lamp is pulsing gently

[Wrensong]

Oh Foxy, you did amazingly well to carry on under those circumstances.  You must have felt rotten.  My hypothyroidism went undiagnosed though I'd long suspected it & had specifically asked my then GP whether it could be behind symptoms.  Was so unwell by time the goitre was found & thyroidectomy scheduled, I'd already left my job.

Glad you haven't needed your thyroid meds adjusting on HRT - I think it's usually only oral oestrogen that raises TBG, but I did need mine adjusting on transdermal.  Thanks for asking about me.  Had a long break from HRT last year & have just resumed systemic a few weeks ago.  Started to suspect HRT was effectively lowering thyroid levels again so booked a TFT & sure enough bloods show lower than optimal again.  So just in process of increasing dosage.  On my first sequi regime postmenopause, so not looking forward to bleeds.  HRT very low dose this time so as yet not sure whether it will be adequate.

Great that you have been stable on 100mcg Thyroxine with no thyroid symptoms - a lot of people do very well indeed on Thyroxine alone, so no reason to think that will change for you.

Couldn't agree more, the human body is unbelievable & I think Endocrinologists are some of the cleverest medics there are.  The field is so complex - mind boggling, anything more than the basics.  Find it hard to get my head around most of it!
Wx