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[Cacarosa]

Hello, ladies.
I've just started my second week on Qlaira, wich I got prescribed for heavy bleedings. At the moment I'm bleeding, my second heavy bleeding since I started Qlaira. Out of desperation I took two pills of Pueraria mirifica (350mg/pill) wich seemed to help somehow before I was on Qlaira. I'd take tanexamic acid, but I'm afraid that being on BCP it would increase my risk of clotting.
The thing is, I have read that even when Pueraria mirifica is a phytoestrogen, its very strong. Am I overdosing on estrogens taking it while on BCP? Or is it just another fancy "natural" and almost inoffensive remedy like soy isoflavones? Thanks

[CLKD]

I had breast disease in the 1990s and no one advised on diet - I was told no HRT though 

If I were you I would make an appt. with the local Pharmacist.  They have private rooms these days.   Then let us know!

[Cacarosa]

Thanks, I did, but no one here seems to know about that supplement. She says that soy and similar herbals are mostly placebos so no harm in taking them while on BCP. So probably all phytoestrogen supplements are harmless. But she never heard about Pueraria mirifica, so she's not sure

[CLKD]

I would send an e-mail to the manufacturers.

[Alicess]

Pueraria Mirifica seems to be a potent phytoestrogen, more potent than soy isoflavones.  There isn't much research yet but an american Docter, .Christane Northrup sellls it under the name Amata for menopausal relief. It's also sold, in higher dosage, for breast enhancement.

You can find some science here: https://examine.com/supplements/pueraria-mirifica/

If you Google some more there is more to find, including reviews.

[Cacarosa]

Thanks a lot. I knew it was much more potent than soy since Japanese girls use it to grow boobs and it seems that it helps somehow. That's why I wonder if taking it while on BCP would be overdosing estrogens

[Cacarosa]

I would send an e-mail to the manufacturers.

Thanks a lot, that's a great suggestion. I'm asking them for advice

[Alicess]

Pueraria may act as a SERM ( selective estrogen receptor modulator) according to this article:

Researcher Sayan Sawatsri, MD has said that PM may constitute a safe, new type of treatment with natural SERMs (selective estrogen receptor modulator) properties. It has the ability to bind to specific tissues in order to maintain a balance of estrogen levels, without negatively affecting other cells. This has been shown to occur in both in vitro and in vivo models.8

According to Dr. Garry Gordon, cofounder of the American College for Advancement in Medicine (ACAM), founder/president of the International College of Advanced Longevity (ICALM), and father of EDTA chelation therapy (see Garry Gordon Discusses Chelation Therapy), explains it this way: “Miroestrol occupies the estrogen receptors more safely. If the estrogen level is high, miroestrol will compete with receptors weakening the effect of the hormones. If the estrogen level is low, miroestrol will exert its estrogenic effect of potentiation.”

[Cacarosa]

Oh, thanks a lot, that's really interesting! So apparently it would help regulate the estrogens in the BCP and your natural ones by upping or lowering them as needed. Amazing!
Need to investigate a little more.

[CLKD]

The older I gets, the less I knows 

[Alicess]

This is the link to the article, forgot to paste it :-)
https://smart-publications.com/articles/pueraria-mirifica-eliminate-uncomfortable-menopause-symptoms-naturally/

[Cacarosa]

Thanks a lot

[Hurdity]

Thanks, I did, but no one here seems to know about that supplement. She says that soy and similar herbals are mostly placebos so no harm in taking them while on BCP. So probably all phytoestrogen supplements are harmless. But she never heard about Pueraria mirifica, so she's not sure

The thing is the action of phyto-oestrogens is complex. Whether or not they are a placebo for menopausal symptoms is controversial - and there are conflicting studies out there, so to say this is somewhat simplistic (of the pharmacist!).

There have been a lot of studies and a very technical review here:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5535874/

It has definitely been established that phyto-oestrogens can bind (weakly)  to oestrogen receptors and from what I recall from the above, differentially to alpha and beta receptors. Also I have read that sometimes they (different types of phytooestrogen) can act like oestrogens and sometimes they oppose the action of oestrogen (ie block it) when they bind to receptors. In addition if you are taking HRT ( or presumably with your own oestrogen) the action may be affected by the relative proportion of actual oestrogen vs phytooestrogen in terms of how they interact with receptors. In short it's very complex and there are insufficient studies to be able to say.

Oh yes just read what Alicess quoted from Garr Gordon and maybe similar for Pueraria compounds.

That being the case personally I would not take any concentrated phyto-oestrogen supplement at the same time as any form of oestrogen replacement whether BCP or HRT and especially as there have been no proper studies of this particular situation. Anyway any studies without placebo/blinding are totally meaningless and a waste of time because placebo plays such an important part in our perception of symptoms especially subjective ones.

I would suggest only take it if you are not taking anything else that contains oestrogen and then it may or may not have an effect which may or may not be placebo.

If it actually did have a very strong oestrogenic effect (on certain receptors) then it could be unsafe to take on its own at high doses in post-menopausal women because a progestogen would be needed to prevent endometrium getting over-stimulated and thickening....

I didn't read the whole link but thanks Alicess....

Hurdity x

[Cacarosa]

Thanks a lot. Your post is very, very informative and useful. I'll take your advice and won't take any phytoestrogens while on BCP. Thanks again.