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[CLKD]

It's morning in this house until we have eaten lunch 

Hopefully racgen will pop up with some news ;-)

[racjen]

Sorry everyone, didn't mean to worry you but have just been feeling more and more despairing. I guess I did feel a bit over whelmed with all the suggestions - to be honest it's as much as I can do to make a cup of tea at the moment, the idea of trying to attend a conference or even asking my GP for Oestrogel instead of Evorel is just too much for me - it all feels like random stabs in the dark which will just lead me further and further down this path to hopelessness.

Having been left feeling completely written off and dismissed by Mr. Tim Hillard at Poole Clinic, I've come back to the prospect of starting progesterone again. So I took 100mg of Utrogestan last night and got no sleep whatsoever. That really hasn't helped. Have spent most of today in bed feeling like I want to go to sleep and never wake up again. Thank you all for caring - I think I did log in this morning but just couldn't think of a single thing to say.....too much estrogen is probably a good one to investigate but right ow my brain just can't cope x.

[Kathleen]

Hello ladies.

racjen - it's good to hear from you but I'm so sorry that it isn't better news. I totally understand your frustration and exhaustion and I wish I had the answers for you. All I can say is rest up and take care of yourself until hopefully some energy returns and you can think straight again. I've had a run of bad nights and the lack of sleep is truly nerve shredding.

Wishing you well.

K.

[Ladybt28]

Hey don't worry, I thought that's what had happened - just look after yourself for the minute, we are just pleased to hear from you. 
You can deal with changing the oestrogen when you can think straight but at least its a plan.  Don't take the utro orally just do it vaginally.
We are just really really  happy to see you check in 


 

[Tc]

Racjen. So glad to hear from you.
The overwhelming thing is understandable. Sometimes  it's all too much to put in place and sort out in your mind.

I hope you don't feel patronized at what I'm going to say but I'm hoping it might help as I do it when I feel overwhelmed.

 I imagine putting things into a big chest with lots of small drawers.i put each thing into a seperate draw. Then i  try to forget about it try to give my mind time to calm and rest my body and then when i feel ready i only open the boxes I can  actually do something about. One at a time. And if i only open 1 in a week thats ok.

 it doesn't always work for me and sometimes I have to start again  but it has worked for me at times and it's something I go back to.

As I said i hope you don't think it's patronizing im  .just trying to offer a tip in the hope it might work for you. I wish I could help you more
Xxxx

[Conolly]

Hello ladies,

Good tip, Tc!

Racjen, have you ever heard of brain reset or reboot? It's something that naturally occurs during sleep but when sleep disturbances make it impossible, there are some techniques (and chemicals) that mimic the process. Have a look on the internet, maybe addressing mental exhaustion is necessary before sorting out HRT.

Conolly X

[Ladybt28]

Oh Birdy I understand about the cortisol and the anxiety meaning your body take up rate on hormones is rubbish.  Longterm high levels of anxiety does major damage to the body and it takes a long time for it to subside and get to a state of better functioning when the cortisol comes down - but double the dose of progesterone because you can't sleep if you are one of the people it makes suicidal when you are on the lowest dose you can take??? - I'm not really sure that would be a good idea!  I was like racjen and I wouldn't have been able to do that, it would have finished me off completely!

I had to use valerian tablets and melatonin to sort out my sleep.

[pepperminty]

Hi,

 just to say 5 years ago I was so stressed I even forgot how to turn the lights on full beam at night on my car ( something i had done a thousand times.) I was literally on my knees unable to take anymore stress. I was a wreck. With counselling, good friends who took care of me, good food, plenty of rest, the right HRT, vitamins- I was low on vit D and iron etc and a determined attitude that either I could give up or find a way, I am now 100% bettter than I was. There is always hope.

Peppermintyx

[racjen]

Hello Racjen.
Thought i'd overwhelm you a bit more. 🙂
After having a complete breakdown this week I landed at my GP's and he's given me beta blockers and diazepam.
And then I called the private meno doc I have been seeing for some desperate help.
We talked for about half hour, and for free thankfully. Probably because I was a wailing banshee and scared her reception staff.
Anyway, the hormones I am on aren't really doing much for my mental state and I thought I needed more tweaks.
But the upshot is, and I said this before, if you are very stressed your cortisol will be high. It floods all of your hormone receptors and therefore no matter what combination of hormones, or whether they are the most pricey you can get or made from horse piss, you will not absorb them.
Even if a blood test says your levels are great, your receptors are shut down.
She said chronic stress, surgery, chemo, sudden death in the family etc all cause body and brain trauma and as a result, cortisol takes over.
So you absolutely have to get your cortisol levels down.
Easier said than done I know, believe me.
She suggested lots of sleep, patience, good nutrition, low low sugar, no stimulants at all, meditation, holy basil, ashwagandha, tons of b vitamins, and time.
I am not absorbing hormones very well, and cortisol is seriously affecting my brain function. I am stressed to f8ck, and clearly you are too.
She said being stressed every day will wreck your chances of hormone balance.
She also said if ultrogestan 100 isn't helping with sleep, double the dose.
I also use Valerian tablets, beta blockers, no caffeine, and bed at the same time every night and no napping day time.

I love the helpful suggestion 'lots of sleep' as if this were something we could just will ourselves to do. As Ladybt says further down, there's no way I'm taking 200mg of Utrogestan, that would really finish me off. I've tried every sleep remedy known to womankind - valerian, anti-histamines, beta-blockers, the Z-class ones you get on prescription. They all make me horribly depressed so kind of defeat the object. I was sleeping reasonably well on estrogen alone (like 5 - 6 hours a night, feels like a decent night's sleep at the moment) but add progesterone and I'm wide awake. Do be careful with diazepam - it works really well, but it's incredibly addictive and your tolerance will increase very fast, does nothing for me now.

Which private doctor are you seeing by the way?



Hope

[pepperminty]

Thanks sparkle, in my experience there is no one cure all, it takes a number of strategies to get better. I look at it in percentages- councelling may be 10%, food maybe 20%, medication may be 15%, family and friends support may be 25% etc of the solution. Every ones percentages and strategies are different. Life is not a bed a roses by any means with Disney characters abundant for me but I try to have a positive attitude, and send a little love into the universe whenever I can.

Peppermintyx

[Conolly]

Hello again racjen,

This study shows there's a physiological estradiol (E2) regimen that is ideal for antianxiety and antidepressive behaviour, lower or higher doses don't have the same effect. Besides, stress and corticosteroids also play a role. The study was performed in rats (poor animals).

https://www.nature.com/articles/1300708

Edit: I know you're may not able to read it right now, so here are the important bits:


'Together, these data suggest that moderate E2 levels, like that produced by 5 or 10 μg E2 administration, may decrease anxiety and depressive behavior and corticosterone levels and that these effects may be modulated by the tone of the HPA.'


'However, some E2 regimen of lower or higher E2 dosages, or a longer duration of E2 exposure, produce no effect on anxiety behavior, decrease anxiety behavior, or may indeed increase anxiety behavior of female rodents in these tasks.'


'We found an effect of moderate dosages (5–10 μg), but not lower (0–2 μg) or higher (20–50 μg) dosages, of E2 to reduce basal corticosterone levels and levels following behavioral testing with or without prior restraint.'


Plus the 2 last paragraphs that are too long to copy/paste on here.

Conolly X

[pepperminty]

Birdy,

Great to see you were listened to and have a plan. You will get there in the end. Let us know how you get along. It takes a while to lower cortisol.

This may seem way out there, but if your mind races try chanting as you can only think of the chant  you are chanting as it were. It is the same principle as mindfulness without the having to think bit if that makes sense.

BENEFITS OF CHANTING
When we chant, we engage in a psycho-spiritual and physical exercise, altering our cells.

Physical changes: Reduces stress, improves cognition, lowers heart rate, helps tune inward to become aware of distress in the physical body before it becomes illness.

The Alzheimer's Research and Prevention Foundation has encouraged the use of the Kirtan Kriya to prevent Alzheimer's and dementia, stating, “clinical research has shown that practicing Kirtan Kriya for just 12 minutes a day can improve cognition and activate parts of the brain that are central to memory.”

EMOTIONAL CHANGES
Alleviates depression, reduces stress.

PM x

[CLKD]

I think the point here racjen is that 'everything' seems to make you depressed.  Which is not to be expected.  These reactions really needs to be addressed ....... what many 'experts' [how I HATE that word  ] do not believe is that there are several forms of depression.

I have organic depression because my brain for many years lacked serotonin [ probably ] certainly something made me very ill  ....... but correct medication eased symptoms and I have to take it for Life.  I also have clinical depression - which many people suffer with when they are unable to alter the situation that they find themselves in.  I can tell the difference in my brain.  Also, I feel depressed in my temples but no one has ever asked where it is situated.  Add to that anxiety from the age of 3 and I'm quite a mess sometimes.  Again, medication helps.

Maybe your medics are completely on the wrong tack  - maybe your medics should work from the brain downwards?  Medication that is designed to ease depression should not make a person suicidal.  Or more depressed.  Maybe read my thread, 'my depression' and see if anything clicks with you.  Start from the top down .......... get a dietician on board in case you lack vitamins etc..  Sit in the sunshine when you are able to drag out of bed. 

[Hurdity]

Hey racjen

If you feel up to it, try to go for a plodge in the snow on the hills tomorrow, to take your mind off your present worries for just a brief moment if you can?

 

Hurdity x

[CLKD]

Plodge - love it