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[Otter15]

About £11. Cheaper with a prescription at home but you don't need a prescription here which makes life simpler. I have the same symptoms as you and the cream is definitely better for me so I was very encouraged when I was told in Spain there's no after-3 months fear. Mind you, what could you do anyway? If nothing else works, what choice is there? The atrophy itself causes too many other problems so, apart from the pain of the condition itself, you end up with other problems, for me vaginitis while Utis for others. Hey ho!

[CLKD]

That's not bad if 1 doesn't get challenged each time one requires relief of symptoms  .  I couldn't have coped without treatment and my GP is aware of symptoms 

[Conolly]

Hello ladies,

There are some non-hormonal new options available like this one https://vagivital.se and others on the pipeline. I'm not sure I can post this link, if not please let me know. Watch this space.

Conolly X

[suzysunday]

Will non hormonal cream do the trick though? My symptoms of VA have needed local hrt and without it I can't manage.  So we just have to hope for the best.

 

[Otter15]

I must say I got Vagifem quite easily, even when it was obvious it wasn't working! The problem for me was being treated with contempt when it wasn't helping, as if I was exaggerating or being a nuisance. Whether it was being talked over or the rolling of the eyes, I felt both small and desperate. My doctor gave the impression that the 'book' says this is how its treated and that's it. (And, actually, what she told me was contradictory!). It was only after being sent to hospital by another doctor  (who actually examined me - something my doctor never did) that I actually got the cream. I was also asked twice why I hadn't been referred to the meno clinic - I didn't even know there was one and my doctor either didn't know about it or didn't think I was worthy of it because she never mentioned it to me.
Now in Spain I don't need to see a doctor for another year and I can buy ovestin without listening to someone nearly half my
 age talking to me as if I'm an idiot. For me the whole experience was horrible. I was so nervous here when I went to see the gynaecologist waiting to be treated in the same way but not at all. Some doctors are just more understanding than others and it seems, unfortunately, to be the luck of the draw. Shouldn't be though. Connolly the non hormonal creams would put a lot of people's minds at rest if they work and we won't have to keep bothering doctors to get it presumably.

[Conolly]

Hello ladies,

Otter15, it's outrageous to be treated (or not treated, actually) this way. I think you are lucky to be feeling well on estriol cream, just don't overdose it, if not needed. Maybe the notion that local oestrogen is absolutely safe and the dread feeling of a VA flare-up can lead women to OD. In many circumstances, the prescribed dose will do the job and increasing doses may lead to decreased response, a process known as tolerance.

Susysunday, if you have tried every other alternative to local oestrogen and none of them has worked for you, it's obvious that you have to keep using it, but the same applies to you, don't overdose it just because you dread a flare-up, there are non-hormonal products available and others coming up that can be used together with topical oestrogen to relieve symptoms.

Conolly X

[Otter15]

Hi Connolly. I've tried not to so I will do the three times a week like the gynaecologist said then, once it's settled, I'll cut it down to two. I did use it outside every day when the Vagifem wasn't working but not for long and only a tiny amount. At least now I'm making headway so I feel quite positive but sad it took so long because someone was blinkered and not really listening to me. We know our own bodies and to be treated so dismissively (is that a word?) is really unpleasant. You can't refer yourself to someone else and you (maybe mistakenly) trust what they're saying - at least at the beginning!

[Conolly]

Hello Ottes15,

Yes, dismissively is the right word to describe how you've been treated. I totally get what you're feeling and if there's a positive side to all this mess is that you are learning and taking informed decisions, but above all, you are  more conscious of your own body and that is the most important thing, NEVER stop listening to the signals sent by your body, unless anxiety and depression are present, they are the most powerful diagnostic tool ever.

Conolly X

[Joaniepat]

Hello ladies,

There are some non-hormonal new options available like this one https://vagivital.se and others on the pipeline. I'm not sure I can post this link, if not please let me know. Watch this space.

Conolly X

This is a water-based vaginal moisturiser containing:
Water
Hypromellose, a semisynthetic polymer often found in eye drops
Benzoic acid, antibacterial
Lactic acid, presumably to maintain low pH and vaginal flora
Sodium hydroxide, aka caustic soda.

It has a pH of 3.8 (good) and was trialled on 90 postmenopausal women with no I'll effects. Unfortunately they don't seem to give the osmolality. According to WHO recommendations this should be no higher than 380 mOsm/kg to avoid epithelial damage.

Other water-based lubricants, such as the well known Yes WB and Yes VM, have the correct pH and osmolality, and more 'natural' ingredients. (No, I don't have shares in Yes!   )

JP x

[Conolly]

Hello Joanipat,


Yes, I'm also a YES user, but everyone is different, right? I posted the link just to give an example that new products are becoming available and there are many others on the pipeline, so VA sufferers can try and choose whatever floats their boat.


BTW, I'd like to have some YES shares 


Conolly X

[Joaniepat]

Hello Joanipat,


Yes, I'm also a YES user, but everyone is different, right? I posted the link just to give an example that new products are becoming available and there are many others on the pipeline, so VA sufferers can try and choose whatever floats their boat.


BTW, I'd like to have some YES shares 


Conolly X

Oh I absolutely agree Conolly, we are indeed all different. You do manage to dig up some interesting stuff, for which many thanks!

JP x

[CLKD]

We agree that atrophy is caused by a drop of oestrogen levels ......... 4 me Ovestin helped plump up the vaginal area so it's what I require.  I would never consider using anything without oestrogen in it if still getting symptoms.  If the area is itchy I use KY Jelly but the product you tell us about may well help me.  Having more choice is always of use.

[suzysunday]

I was on tibolone for VA for 18 months and had pmb and biopsy and it went on for months,  so I am scared to try systemic hrt. It has taken a while to treat uti symptoms with the ovestin.  I have been on it for 3 months and struggling with wee problems and cystisis.  A month ago my gp suggested reloading with ovestin daily for 3 or 4 weeks which I did., then alternate nights, which I am on now and using non hormonal gel in between.  My gp said it was very safe.  I will reduce dosage to every 3 nights when I think I can manage.   I was only on the tibolone before, never other hrt and I am 60 now.  I feel concerned now about local hrt, but don't trust systemic after the bleeding.  I haven't had sex since the bleeding cos the cystisis really knocked me and weeks of wee problems that were grinding me down.  I am getting through slowly and want to cut back on the ovestin in the future. I just want to stabilise.   

[CLKD]

Don't rush suzysunday as the body doesn't get where it is suddenly.  Oestrogen levels usually drop slowly for most of us - it took 2-3 years 4 my GP to realise what was causing my symptoms. 

Also: do take a pain relief if your symptoms niggle.  Also, keep well hydrated.  The kidneys work harder if the body requires liquids.  Which equals to the need to pee more often.

[Hurdity]

suzysunday - please be guided by your doctor about your use of Ovestin as well as current medical recommendations ie NICE Guidelines, British Menopause and Women's Health Concern recommendations etc. If your specialist has said you may use it 3 x per week or alternate days - then it is fine to do so. The NICE Guidelines suggest that doses can be varied under medical supervision anyway - to quote: "If vaginal oestrogen does not relieve symptoms of urogenital atrophy, consider increasing the dose after seeking advice from a healthcare professional with expertise in menopause"

I thought I had reassured you? To repeat - do not be concerned - this is a licensed treatment - but as with all HRT local or systemic every woman should be vigilant about unexpected and unexplained symptoms - but not worry all the time!

Current guidelines are that, despite there being no long term trials into safety (ie longer than 1 year), the thinking is that any risk of endometiral hyperplasia is extremely low (and only a small proportion of hyperplasia cases actually become cancer), due to the very low doses of oestrogen being used (and risks to the endometrium are dose dependent). All the Guidelines are saying the same thing - its low dose oestrogen, low cancer risk, no need for progestogenic opposition, be guided by your doctor if you are varying the licensed dose, be vigilant about any post-menpausal bleeding.

I can understand your fears due to the bleeding you had on Tibolone but uterine thickening on this HRT is actually a known potential adverse effect - which is one reason I decided not to go on it when I was thinking about taking something for low libido. However I think your investigation showed nothing abnormal? I presume your lining is thin now or you had treatment to thin it (nothing to do with the Ovestin!)?

Also different systemic HRT types (notably the progestogens) have different effects on the endometrium so a more conventional systemic HRT may not cause the thickening you experienced on the Tibolone.

I do think if the Ovestin is not controlling your symptoms and you are suffering badly, then maybe time to reconsider systemic HRT ( sorry a bit off topic but as it's your thread I thought OK!)?

I do hope you manage to stabilise on your current treatment.

Hurdity x