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[EnglishRose]

Hi guys... I'm devastated and scared I thought I was on my way out of the black hole.

I'm very grateful for feedback please...

In a hole again...had almost two weeks of almost me following my last period
I even booked a cottage for Xmas but now I can't even get out of my bed again if I continue to feel this way.

I feel like I'm about to start period  again I've been saying it for a few days now  fortnightly periods are not uncommon for me, but these horrible physical and mental symptoms are.

I felt I had normal pmt theses last two days then this morning was teary then boom like a switch I dropped from teary to dark deep depression...like I was 4 days before my last period on the 2nd Dec

I was so low on week before my bleed I decided to either stop the 2 pumps or increase... I'm desperate so I increased to 3 pumps and felt better a few days later I increased again to 4 pumps and have been level headed since

Now here I am again... due to go away on Friday but I'm depressed. My vagina feels hyper sensitive which I hate, my legs are restless again and my lumbar back aches, palpitations,..just like I did at my worst weeks ago.

Aren't palpitations a sign of Oestrogen deficiency? Or too much? Or both?
My boobs have been sore and swollen ever since I started Oestrogel, they just get even more swollen and sore before my period.

My last bloods in May were
Oestrogen >18
FSH 70
Progesterone 20

Started oestrogel Nov 7th
Using cyclogest 300mg to the skin (long story)

Am I using too much for peri menopause? Are my symptoms so severe because my period means my own Oestrogen has dropped or risen?

I just need my mental stability back,, there's pmt and there's this black hole i can't live with the black hole...  just can't do anything ,

I increased my AD too a week ago as the dose I've been on for years was below the therapeutic dose.

Thank you in advance
Xxxx

I've kept away from here as I knew I'd become too clingy and needy. Sorry for bothering you again
My presiber is not reachable really, .

[AgathaC]

I'm so sorry that I can't help with anything constructive. I've no experience of HRT and am much less knowledgeable and experienced than the lovely ladies on this forum.
What I can add is that I'm perimenopausal too and that it is clear from your experiences and my own that this journey is not a nice straight road but a rollercoaster and a very frightening and unsettling rollercoaster at times.
Hoping someone will answer soon your specific queries x

[EnglishRose]

I'm so sorry that I can't help with anything constructive. I've no experience of HRT and am much less knowledgeable and experienced than the lovely ladies on this forum.
What I can add is that I'm perimenopausal too and that it is clear from your experiences and my own that this journey is not a nice straight road but a rollercoaster and a very frightening and unsettling rollercoaster at times.
Hoping someone will answer soon your specific queries x

Thank you.
My concern is prior to HRT I never experienced pmt this severe so it's a concern whether it's helping or hindering.
My palpitations are very bad tonight 😣

[AG]

Hi,

Sorry to hear your are not feeling well and all the best. I am not on HRT (yet) but in late peri menopause (nearly 49y). I have had what severe hormone fluctuations at times over the last year and a bit, where initially I must have had really high oestrogen levels at times, and PMS I had for days and days with water retention and other symptoms likely due to high oestrogen at the time. I now have mostly low oestrogen levels (dry skin and other changes plus measured below 18 in May) but things can still fluctuate wildly from my experience. With HRT you may get hormone fluctuations at a higher level still as it may be difficult to adjust to all these hormone fluctuations at all times but I am not an expert. Wishing you all the best, Anna

[Conolly]

Hello EnglishRose,


Sorry you're still struggling, perimenopause is a roller coaster indeed. I have tried HRT for 3 months during peri and couldn't stand it, felt worse. 


I think you said you have Oestrodose relabelled as Oestrogel? I wonder if you're amongst the ones who doesn't seem to feel well on Oestrodose.


Four pumps is a lot and may make you feel worse if your own ovaries are having oestrogen spikes.


Do you drink alcohol? I wonder if alcohol intolerance, very common in peri, could also be an issue whilst on 4 pumps of an alcoholic gel.


Hope you can find a solution soon.


Conolly X

[EnglishRose]

Hello EnglishRose,


Sorry you're still struggling, perimenopause is a roller coaster indeed. I have tried HRT for 3 months during peri and couldn't stand it, felt worse. 


I think you said you have Oestrodose relabelled as Oestrogel? I wonder if you're amongst the ones who doesn't seem to feel well on Oestrodose.


Four pumps is a lot and may make you feel worse if your own ovaries are having oestrogen spikes.


Do you drink alcohol? I wonder if alcohol intolerance, very common in peri, could also be an issue whilst on 4 pumps of an alcoholic gel.


Hope you can find a solution soon.


Conolly X

I don't drink no. I think there's a thread about that whole “fake label” it's been put to bed after Hurdity wrote to the manufacturer. It's the exact same stuff just labelled differently for different countries.
I've been fine on it really since I started it.
But my last period was absolutely hell...depression like I've never known...then after my bleed I felt much better,.. confidence up..felt I was making my way home...then BOOM black depression all evening tonight and as I say I'm due to bleed again I've noticed other symptoms for a few days but more in line with my usual intensity and flavour.
As I quite often bleed every two weeks I can't cope with 5 days in bed with hormonal depression twice a month.

On the up side I feel a little better now than I did when I wrote the post... but it knocks your confidence bc now I'm wondering how I'm going to feel tomorrow or on our Xmas holiday, when I'm that low... I can't even watch tv or read a book...I'm literally frozen with depression and it consumes me.

It's concerning bc I never had it that bad till I started oestrogel..

I've definitely got too much Oestrogen in my system following this evenings application, I feel jittery and tight chested which means my own oestrogen is spiked.. but felt fine for 10 days on the same dose... my heart is flipping about in my chest too tonight

My god it's like trying platt treacle trying to get stable

[EnglishRose]

Hi,

Sorry to hear your are not feeling well and all the best. I am not on HRT (yet) but in late peri menopause (nearly 49y). I have had what severe hormone fluctuations at times over the last year and a bit, where initially I must have had really high oestrogen levels at times, and PMS I had for days and days with water retention and other symptoms likely due to high oestrogen at the time. I now have mostly low oestrogen levels (dry skin and other changes plus measured below 18 in May) but things can still fluctuate wildly from my experience. With HRT you may get hormone fluctuations at a higher level still as it may be difficult to adjust to all these hormone fluctuations at all times but I am not an expert. Wishing you all the best, Anna

My symptoms took a nose I had no option but to try HRT. I couldn't go on as I was.
I hope you manage to get through without needing it x

[EnglishRose]

My own doctor wanted to put me on a coil or birth control to stop or overtake my own hormonal fluctuations
I dismissed it at the time but unless this HRT helps that's my next option. I just want the horrible acute ups and downs to stop.

[dangermouse]

Many of us are going through these severe end of peri fluctuations - they are terrifying!

Have you tried plotting your cycle on a graph to try to work out some kind of symptom pattern, at least then you may be prepared for when the oestrogen zooms up high and crashes?

My last cycle was 40 days so harder to figure out now but I have found a pattern where I have 2 days where I feel completely normal (not had for years!) and then 6 days later I have my period. 2 days per month of feeling normal is like a dream come true after 3 years of this. My nausea has become worse and had 10 days in a row last month but sea bands and antihistamine helped me through. Tough with work though but cyclizine cut in half doesn't make you too drowsy and also calms the adrenaline somewhat.

My progesterone cream also takes the edge off my anxiety (which is crazy now!) but I suspect only oestrogen could help if you took enough to override your own to stop it spiking (if that's even possible when it's this volatile) as in how it works with the combined pill.

I really wouldn't go by your blood tests in peri, my endocrinologist said that the numbers will fluctuate from one hour to the next from one extreme to another. Your GP should really know this and not rely on them.

Are you worried something else is wrong? It's common as the anxiety makes everything seem magnified. It's just peri coming to a head and we could be nearing the end of the nightmare so this could be exciting times. Think if every severe symptom as coming to the end of the rollercoaster ride!

[Ladybt28]

I'm on 4 pumps oestrogel but I am post meno.  I had really bad anxiety when I was peri and it is because of your own hormone spikes.  You also haven't been on your gel that long if I remember rightly.  I am halfway through my 4th month. The Anxiety didn't come under control until I was nearly at the end of  month 3 - be patient.  I still have rampant depression but I have that on my list for discussion when I get reviewed in Jan.  All my other terrible symptoms and if you read my posts before I had loads have all sorted themselves out.  From your posts your body has been through a lot and the longer it is on an uncontrolled roller coaster sometimes it takes longer to readjust.  Stick with it EnglishRose!

[EnglishRose]

I'm on 4 pumps oestrogel but I am post meno.  I had really bad anxiety when I was peri and it is because of your own hormone spikes.  You also haven't been on your gel that long if I remember rightly.  I am halfway through my 4th month. The Anxiety didn't come under control until I was nearly at the end of  month 3 - be patient.  I still have rampant depression but I have that on my list for discussion when I get reviewed in Jan.  All my other terrible symptoms and if you read my posts before I had loads have all sorted themselves out.  From your posts your body has been through a lot and the longer it is on an uncontrolled roller coaster sometimes it takes longer to readjust.  Stick with it EnglishRose!

Thank you.
I know logically it's peri reaching the grande final before the ovaries shut down but MY GOD it's like torture, you end up afraid to plan anything as you can't predict how you will feel at any given time.
I am dealing with VA and those symptoms ramp up when my depression kicks in, so I know it's all hormonal.
It's been the hardest time of my life I just want things to settle now.
Thanks for replying always good to know it's not just me xxxx

[Kb21]

Hi, hope you're feeling a bit better this morning.

I'm no expert and I'm sure someone will correct me if I'm wrong. But it must be really hard to get the correct balance of hormones if you're still producing your own? I've tried oestrogel, it starts off fine but after a week or so I get migraines and feel spaced out, which I assume is the accumulation in the system and I've stopped taking it. I've also found it makes me more snippy.

Could you try reducing the dose and playing with it that way as 4 pumps does sound high to me?? It shouldn't be giving you palpitations I don't think.

[NorthArm]

Hi RoseEnglish

I'm sorry you're feeling low again - it's awful to feel like that I know. I agree with Ladybt though, do stick with it for the three months to give it a red hot go. Have you reduced the cyclogest down to 200? And have you started using it vaginally? As that may be what is influencing the severity of your pms too...

I've just started adding a smidge of testosterone to the blend - I'm 4 days in, and apart from heart flutters about an hour after applying, that horrible, gnawing anxious and depressed feeling seems to have gone. I'm having issues trusting it, but I seriously feel more like my old self than I have for close to two years. I did loads of research, and apparently it can help our adrenals by shunting norinephrine and ephrine from one type of receptor (the one that makes the ‘fight or flight response) to another type of receptor that keeps us calmer - so far it seems to be working, but time will tell I guess. Lol I'm only four days in, but my voice is still the same and my girly bits haven't started turning into boy bits. No extra chin hairs, and my hair seems to be staying put....

Do give it the full three months, and if it still isn't helping, go back to your consultant and talk about other options. I hope you're feeling a bit better today ❤️❤️

[EnglishRose]

I'm on 4 pumps oestrogel but I am post meno.  I had really bad anxiety when I was peri and it is because of your own hormone spikes.  You also haven't been on your gel that long if I remember rightly.  I am halfway through my 4th month. The Anxiety didn't come under control until I was nearly at the end of  month 3 - be patient.  I still have rampant depression but I have that on my list for discussion when I get reviewed in Jan.  All my other terrible symptoms and if you read my posts before I had loads have all sorted themselves out.  From your posts your body has been through a lot and the longer it is on an uncontrolled roller coaster sometimes it takes longer to readjust.  Stick with it EnglishRose!

I will do. I'm glad your better ... truly.
Do you think I'm doing too much on 4 pumps?

[Ladybt28]

I started off with 2 pumps but my GP told me to increase it because she said I had to get the levels up and the only way to do it was to increase the dose for quite a while to let the body take it on board English Rose.  Now if I miss a dose or don't put it on at the same time I cant feel any difference, so no outward symptoms because my body detects it doesn't have enough.  This must mean my levels are sufficient to last 24 hours if I missed a dose for some reason.  No palipitations or anxiety or sick feeling - all gone!

Northarm I really interested in your testosterone comment.  I am going to ask for some at review in Jan because I cannot get rid of the flat dead feeling.  I have got rid of the anxiety which was, for about 5 years off the scale, but still flat and no motivation. I'm laughing because it sounds like you are expecting someone to give you beard oil for Christmas!!!!