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[Ladybt28]

Karen Max - I use oestrogel 4 pumps and Utrogestan vaginally on a cycle although I am post meno.  I like the gel because it is flexible - you can start with one pump and work your way up to 4 until the symptoms subside.  As far as the GP is concerned the only issue is that if you use 4 pumps you need a prescription for a bottle of gel every 2 weeks otherwise you don't really need o keep going to and fro to discuss changing treatments or upping patches. 

I agree you probably need more oestrogen however, I am at 4 pumps and have the crying and lack of motivation/dead inside you described. My anxiety, panic, nausea, flushes are gone.  I have a bit of an issue with progesterone but I personally think I need testosterone which supports oestrogen and when prescribed is said to help with energy, motivation, and libido.  I cant ask for any yet?  But back to you.  Maybe trying oestrogel will allow you to play around with the right dose and see if it is indeed lack of oestrogen that is the problem.

[Karen max]

Hi
Thanks for your replies 

My doctors isn't fully NHS it's part owned so when it comes to handing meds out that cause more money they tend to refuse , I asked about the year before they give me the patches and doc said no ..
I do have days where I don't feel as bad but still no motivation.

Do yous think I could need a higher dose of patch ?
Or even should I ask for a different patch ?
I know doc won't give Gel out as this issue has been going on a few years with me asking for help regarding hrt they just do have a clue about hrt and as for me I confuse myself more and more when I read about it
I've also noticed from I started this patch my facial hair has become a huge problem my chin would look like Santa beard if I didn't remove the hair every other day

Holy moly this menopause feels like it's getting worse instead of better as the months go on
It's 4 years in December from I had a normal period and I honestly thought I'd be over the worse of it but looks like it's not going that way
Thanks for all your help

Kaz xx

[Ladybt28]

Hey Kaz - the gel is one of the cheapest hrt available I believe.  If you buy it on the continent over the counter it is about 4 Euro so the NHS here can't really use that as an excuse.  Your GP's seem very mean and very unhelpful but they are not unusual.  The truth is they don't know enough and are fudging it!  I would suggest though that changing the patch or upping the patch is probably more expensive to them than oestrogel but what do I know (actually what do they know??!!! - not the cost of gel obviously).
 
There are no guarantees on this meno journey we are on and sometimes when we think it should be all over it gets worse (hard as that is to swallow!) I'm post meno but was on the wrong hrt regime for 7 years - its not easy! Regarding the hairiness - you probably need Hurdity to answer that one - she should be along soon - I dont know the answer but I think it may have something to do with progesterone having an andognistic effect or something like that.  Anyway not for me to answer. 

When I started on my new HRT I had sore breasts and anxiety, panic and no motivation by the bucket load but the anxiety and sore breasts went as the dose got higher  Unfortunately I havent managed to up my motivation but I have read here that is possibly a testosterone issue
All you can do is go armed with as much gumption (difficult to muster if you're not feeling great) and information as you can gather and try and get your GP to say or do something sensible.  Tell them they are supposed to be the ones guiding you and if they cant please get them to send you to someone who can.  Maybe the cost of sending you to a meno clinic will focus their minds - I do hope so 

[Karen max]

Hi ladybt
Thank you for your reply
It's horrible the way female docs are clueless to menopause , I'm thinking because my surgery has all new doctors in it now as all the old ones have retired is this the reason why they don't have a clue because they are young ? Goodness only knows why but one doc did offer me menop clinic we have only one and the waiting list is huge I mean huge as in a few years waiting and to go private it costs a fortune..
I'm going on Thursday to see GP with as much info I can getalso a list of my problems , so hopefully il get some help as it honestly feels it's getting worse instead if better , 4byrs next month from my periods stopped and I truly thought I'd be iver the worse if it by now but how wrong was I
I remember when I was pri meno my old doc talking about hrt but at the point I was coping with the hot flushes and mood swings just but I always remember him saying " when you get the right hrt you will know it suits you right away " haha if only I've had around 6-7 different ones and not one suited me so far the hrt patch I'm using now has been the best of them

Kaz x

[Hurdity]

Hi Karen Maz

Haven't read this thread in detail as just about to sign off - but if you are on Evorel conti - as Ladybt says this contains a testosterone derived progestogen which can cause androgenic effects like hair loss (eg on head)  and hairiness (eg on face)- in places we don't want. It can also cause continuous progestogenic side effects - lack of oomph, headaches etc.

This might have already been suggested but I would start by trying a cyclical HRT (unless you've had bad endometriosis) - you would have to put up with a withdrawal bleed but you could see how you felt on the oestrogen only part. If you are post-menopausal then you might be able to go for a longer cycle (ie bleed every 5-6 weeks) under medical supervision.

I would go for Estradot patches - if you want to stay with patches and utrogestan (micronised progesterone). It is your right to choose the type you want as long as you have and state your reasons to the doc.

However if you think the one you;ve had is the best then try the same product in a sqeui ie Evorel sequi - before going for separate oestrogen and progestogen as I and others have suggested. Downside is the progesterone withdrawal and the bleed but you might like the good feeling on oestrogen only!

Good luck and let us know how you get on

In haste

Hurdity x

[Karen max]

Hi
Thank you I did ask last year for a hrt that would give he a bleed as I thought maybe it would be better as back when I was having normal periods I always felt better once my period arrived but doc jumped in and said noway definitely that's no on the cards ( he didn't give a reason just a blank NO )
So I guess I have to stick with the same kind of patch I'm on now as my doc is very helpful to be honest
I can cope with the hair on chin ect that's easy removed , what is getting me down is the low mood no motivation at all almost as if I'm dead instead , the crying over the daftest of things dry flaking skin and almost like a rage comes over me at times
I did lose hair before I started on this hrt patch but thankfully I've very thick hair so it wasn't noticeable

Hurdity what do you think would be my my best patch to try ?
I'm clueless with hormones and I'd like to be able to ask doc fir a certain patch

I know you can't tell me what's best but I know you are well clued on on hrt so maybe even a few suggestions of different Ines as I know doc won't give me one which causes a bleed so I'm looking one something like I'm on now which did seem to help me at the beginning but now I feel I'm back to where I was before starting the patch

Any names of patches would be great so I'm able to fire some names at him

Many thanks

Kaz x